Sage goddess
[TotK] The Temple of Time conundrum
2023.06.01 19:49 SlendrBear [TotK] The Temple of Time conundrum
I'd like to preface this with an apology, as at this point my theories are becoming a rabbit hole as I keep linking to my past posts and will be doing so here as well, as it's easier than fully explaining it all again. I will still touch on it. I'll also be keeping all images in one link so they are more contained, which will be at the end.
As I recently pointed out, the memories in TotK show that the Rauru's Temple of Time one stood in the exact same spot as our current Temple of Time. In these same memories we see Hyrule was *very* different, and seemingly uncharted. In this post I'll be explaining why the current Temple of Time is the same as the one found in OoT and TP (although slightly different in appearance). I'll also be abbreviating the Temple of Time to "ToT."
To start, we need to establish a few facts:
I've seen many people say that the Forgotten Temple in TotK is the Sealed Temple from SS. I myself once thought this as well. After going back and checking and having a better understanding of the lore; this can't be.
The only similarity the Sealed Temple and the Forgotten Temple have in common is a room with a large Goddess Statue that has a spot to stand on and they have similar patterns on the walls. The Sealed Temple is closer to the size of the ToT whereas the Forgotten Temple is *huge*. Along with this we *know* the Forgotten Temple isn't the Sealed Temple, as the ToT was built on the remains of the Sealed Temple.
Now I'm not one to base much on the overall maps of the games since Hyrule's geography changes from game-to-game, but other than OoT, it all matches pretty well.
As you'll see in the link at the end, the ToT in TP and TotK line up well with the Sealed Temple in Skyward Sword, and all 3 are in Faron. The *only* ToT that doesn't line up is the ToT from OoT. However, much of the map from OoT doesn't line up, compared to the other 3 mentioned. Still, a common theory is that Castle Town from OoT is actually on the Great Plateau. I've checked, and the *exact* buildings don't line up, but they also don't line up from OoT to TP. Just as the ToT is located where the Sealed Ground once were and it will be in BotW during TP.
Overall though, the Great Plateau's ToT Ruins, Eastern Abby and even geography line up with OoT's Castle Town/Hyrule Castle. They are also located at the left of Faron at the end. An interesting theory was actually just recently posted on this sub, where OP claims it maps out the entire OoT map. Check it out, it's a good read!
Notice how the OG ToT is right above Lanayru Desert which becomes Gerudo Desert, located in a canyon. Wait a moment, a *canyon*? The Forgotten Temple is also located in a canyon, and that canyon is above Gerudo Desert, just as the OG ToT was. Still, it's at the opposite end. So while I'm not entirely convinced the Forgotten Temple and the OG ToT are the same, I think it's worth pointing out the similarities.
Now for the part I'm most excited to talk about: The location of the Master Sword in TotK's memories.
Establishing that Rauru's ToT was the original built on the remains of the Sealed Temple, one question comes to mind: *where is the Master Sword?"
After looking, it seems rather obvious.
At the back of Rauru's ToT we see what looks like a small stone coffin. This is clearly a very important part of Rauru's ToT, as it is sections off and the coffin is in the center. In the link at the end you'll see it most likely is in fact a coffin. Remember when Link sends the broken Master Sword to the past? A yellow ball appears directly above this coffin, and at the same time it appears there for Zelda in the past.
When this is happening, we see Zelda's Secret Stone glowing and Link's hand glowing. Now, it's obvious neither of them are directly responsible for this, yet they both play a part in it.
At the end of TotK we see both Rauru and Sonia's ghost's still exist, and they have control over Link's Arm. The arm is originally Rauru's, and it has Sonia's time power. Yes it was given to him by Zelda, but as Sonia states; it is her power, they are the same.
So, I believe it's likely Sonia and or Rauru created that yellow ball, and find it's placement to be intentional. I believe the Master Sword was *in* that coffin before Rauru's ToT was sent into the sky. The coffin is also slightly larger than the Master Sword, and in the link at the end you'll see that it very clearly is meant to be a coffin. Some also say Rauru doesn't know about the Master Sword. This isn't true. They use his line "We rely on your knight, and that Legendary Sword he carries" as proof, but that doesn't prove it at all. They also ask why he didn't use it against Ganondorf: It is used to protect the Triforce so no one knows about it and gets their hands on it. Plus, Memory 14 makes it seem as though Rauru very much knows about the Master Sword.
To summarize:
The Forgotten Temple is not the Sealed Temple. It just can't be as the ToT is built on the ruins of the Sealed Temple. There's a chance of it being the OG ToT but even that have enough proof, though it has more than it being the Sealed Temple. Rauru's ToT was the first to be built on top of the Sealed Temple ruins. The coffin at Rauru's ToT likely housed the Master Sword during his time, as Rauru is the Sage of Light that built the Temple of Time and used the Master Sword to seal the Triforce in the Sacred Realm.
Here are the images for reference! Again, the comparison between Rauru's ToT and the current ToT is in the first link!
submitted by SlendrBear to truezelda [link] [comments]
As I recently pointed out, the memories in TotK show that the Rauru's Temple of Time one stood in the exact same spot as our current Temple of Time. In these same memories we see Hyrule was *very* different, and seemingly uncharted. In this post I'll be explaining why the current Temple of Time is the same as the one found in OoT and TP (although slightly different in appearance). I'll also be abbreviating the Temple of Time to "ToT."
To start, we need to establish a few facts:
- In SS there was a location by the same name that also had a Gate of Time just as the Sealed Temple did above Lanayru Desert, which eventually becomes Gerudo Desert. (for the purpose of this theory I will be abbreviating *this* one to OG ToT)
- The ToT was built on the remains of the Sealing Temple from SS.
- The purpose of the ToT is to house the Master Sword, which acts as a key to the Sacred Realm where the Triforce is hidden. It's a secret to everybody. ;)
- The ToT was built by a Sage of Light named Rauru.
- In SS the Sealed Temple is to the left of Faron Woods. It's connected at the left end.
- In BotW the ToT is to the left of Faron. It's connected at the left end.
- As I pointed out, Rauru's ToT was once in the same spot as TotK's ToT and is now on the Great Sky Island.
I've seen many people say that the Forgotten Temple in TotK is the Sealed Temple from SS. I myself once thought this as well. After going back and checking and having a better understanding of the lore; this can't be.
The only similarity the Sealed Temple and the Forgotten Temple have in common is a room with a large Goddess Statue that has a spot to stand on and they have similar patterns on the walls. The Sealed Temple is closer to the size of the ToT whereas the Forgotten Temple is *huge*. Along with this we *know* the Forgotten Temple isn't the Sealed Temple, as the ToT was built on the remains of the Sealed Temple.
Now I'm not one to base much on the overall maps of the games since Hyrule's geography changes from game-to-game, but other than OoT, it all matches pretty well.
As you'll see in the link at the end, the ToT in TP and TotK line up well with the Sealed Temple in Skyward Sword, and all 3 are in Faron. The *only* ToT that doesn't line up is the ToT from OoT. However, much of the map from OoT doesn't line up, compared to the other 3 mentioned. Still, a common theory is that Castle Town from OoT is actually on the Great Plateau. I've checked, and the *exact* buildings don't line up, but they also don't line up from OoT to TP. Just as the ToT is located where the Sealed Ground once were and it will be in BotW during TP.
Overall though, the Great Plateau's ToT Ruins, Eastern Abby and even geography line up with OoT's Castle Town/Hyrule Castle. They are also located at the left of Faron at the end. An interesting theory was actually just recently posted on this sub, where OP claims it maps out the entire OoT map. Check it out, it's a good read!
Notice how the OG ToT is right above Lanayru Desert which becomes Gerudo Desert, located in a canyon. Wait a moment, a *canyon*? The Forgotten Temple is also located in a canyon, and that canyon is above Gerudo Desert, just as the OG ToT was. Still, it's at the opposite end. So while I'm not entirely convinced the Forgotten Temple and the OG ToT are the same, I think it's worth pointing out the similarities.
Now for the part I'm most excited to talk about: The location of the Master Sword in TotK's memories.
Establishing that Rauru's ToT was the original built on the remains of the Sealed Temple, one question comes to mind: *where is the Master Sword?"
After looking, it seems rather obvious.
At the back of Rauru's ToT we see what looks like a small stone coffin. This is clearly a very important part of Rauru's ToT, as it is sections off and the coffin is in the center. In the link at the end you'll see it most likely is in fact a coffin. Remember when Link sends the broken Master Sword to the past? A yellow ball appears directly above this coffin, and at the same time it appears there for Zelda in the past.
When this is happening, we see Zelda's Secret Stone glowing and Link's hand glowing. Now, it's obvious neither of them are directly responsible for this, yet they both play a part in it.
At the end of TotK we see both Rauru and Sonia's ghost's still exist, and they have control over Link's Arm. The arm is originally Rauru's, and it has Sonia's time power. Yes it was given to him by Zelda, but as Sonia states; it is her power, they are the same.
So, I believe it's likely Sonia and or Rauru created that yellow ball, and find it's placement to be intentional. I believe the Master Sword was *in* that coffin before Rauru's ToT was sent into the sky. The coffin is also slightly larger than the Master Sword, and in the link at the end you'll see that it very clearly is meant to be a coffin. Some also say Rauru doesn't know about the Master Sword. This isn't true. They use his line "We rely on your knight, and that Legendary Sword he carries" as proof, but that doesn't prove it at all. They also ask why he didn't use it against Ganondorf: It is used to protect the Triforce so no one knows about it and gets their hands on it. Plus, Memory 14 makes it seem as though Rauru very much knows about the Master Sword.
To summarize:
The Forgotten Temple is not the Sealed Temple. It just can't be as the ToT is built on the ruins of the Sealed Temple. There's a chance of it being the OG ToT but even that have enough proof, though it has more than it being the Sealed Temple. Rauru's ToT was the first to be built on top of the Sealed Temple ruins. The coffin at Rauru's ToT likely housed the Master Sword during his time, as Rauru is the Sage of Light that built the Temple of Time and used the Master Sword to seal the Triforce in the Sacred Realm.
Here are the images for reference! Again, the comparison between Rauru's ToT and the current ToT is in the first link!
2023.06.01 16:20 WwwWario The true timeline placement, and why TOTK's memories happen before everything we know [THEORY] [SPOILERS]
This is a sort of Part 2 of my grand theory of "Ancient Zonai", and you can read Part 1 here:
https://www.reddit.com/tearsofthekingdom/comments/13rdwog/the_zonai_have_been_in_the_story_this_whole_time/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Strap in, because this is a long one! Spoilers for Tears of the Kingdom, Breath of the Wild, and Skyward Sword.
I'm a believer that the lore in Zelda isn't just slapped on. They've said at least since 2001 that they have documents written about how each game connect, and when they put so much work into describing symbols and potential backstories for small things in THREE different books, I think it's safe to say that the connected lore is important to Nintendo.
But, before I go on with my theory, it's important to establish something I've just recently started to think about: The Legend of Zelda are LEGENDS in the games. I believe each game shows what really happened in those times, but because each game is so far apart, the events of other games are merely myths and legends within the world of Zelda, as many games explain many times. Aka, what happens in the games is true, but the stories told within the games are legends. How the world was created, who the godesses were, what happened i previous eras, etc. that are explained in-game are how the residents of the world at that time interprates history, because it's all (again) legends and myths.
One of the major head twisters in TOTK is "Where is anything taking place?!". Is TOTK's memories between SS and OOT? Or in the distant future, before BOTW? Where is the Great Calamity 10 000 years before BOTW taking place? Does it happen before all other games, and that 10 000 year gap is our timeline of games? Etc.
BOTW is confirmed to be far, far into the future compared to all other games, which means the same for TOTK. Wether the timelines have merged, or if only 1 is canon and the others are legends within this world, or if all are canon and this is still in one of the timelines, is unknown. But where is TOTK's memories taking place?
I believe they happen in the distant past, even before Skyward Sword.
There are several things that goes against this, I know; Hyrule was established after SS, not before it. Demise was the origin of Ganondorf, so it can't take place before SS. They talk about the Master Sword, but that wasn't forged until SS.
Well, let's begin (and keep in mind, this is purely FUN for me to do! I love lore that is very hidden and subtile like in the Zelda universe. Weather it's correct or not, I'm still having a blast, so don't shoot me for getting certain things wrong or for disagreeing with me haha).
The Zonai was one of the very first races to exist alongside humans, and they were living in islands in the sky. They were blessed with technological knowledge to help and serve the gods. They decended upon the land, and people thought they were gods at first due to their appearance, magic, and highly advanced technology.
The world flurished, and the Zonai created the ancient robots seen in Skyward Sword, and later the Temple of Time in Lanayru seen in both TOTK and Skyward Sword. Why and how, you ask? In SS, we learn the robots were active thousands of years prior to the game, meaning an advanced civilization lived thousands of years before SS. The robots' body parts are connected with energy just like Zonai constructs. The robots' ship, the Sand Ship, has the Zonai swirl symbol on it, which even is confirmed in one of the 3 Zelda lore books to be the clear symbol for the Zonai.
https://preview.redd.it/yk85sjfbzd3b1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=45d3a957ea367fbf8130370c6bfbf1ab5b380200
Aka, this Sand Ship is a Zonai ship, and those ancient robots are Zonai robots. There is no question. Why else would they choose to use this symbol in these places? Now, what were the robots mining in the Lanayru Mining Facility? Probably Zonite. As we see when using Timeshift Stones, Lanayru was once filled with green fields of grass in the ancient past.
And what's right next to the Mining Facility? The broken Temple of Time. And what is almost directly blow TOTK's Temple of Time? The Abandonded Central Mine. And what do we see in TOTK's memories? A fully in-tact Temple of Time, in green fields, built with very similar white-stone material to the one from Skwyard Sword:
https://preview.redd.it/xbic4jxozd3b1.png?width=1343&format=png&auto=webp&s=66a274e358ad8c9a4c0935d9ceb589a77022061d
https://preview.redd.it/jhtoqtx20e3b1.png?width=1427&format=png&auto=webp&s=85ea6251b78232dbe865cf8fca35b6abdfce5271
In other words: Both in Skwyard Sword and TOTK, we see the first Temple of Time, and both have mines next to them. It's the same temple. The ONLY thing I cannot figure out, is that the TOTK temple is said to have been sent to the sky as a hero was destined to awaken there. So if the SS and TOTK temples are the same, but the SS temple has decayed, when did it rise back into the sky as a fully constructed temple again? Here I need your help.
Now, Rauru, the sage of light from OOT, is written to have built "the second Temple of Time", meaning this one in SS is the first one. King Rauru built the first Temple of Time, and light sage Rauru was named after him and built the second temple thousands of years later. It all makes sense.
Rauru has Secret Stones, perhahs he made them himself or they were gifts from the Gods.
Years passed after the temple and robots' creation, and the Zonai tribe became less and less (not sure how, but probably due to marrying and breeding with humans). The Sheikah tribe who protects the Royal Family is taught the technology from the Zonai. Rauru married Sonia (a decendant of Hylia who thus posessed magical powers), and the two of them finally united all the lands and created Hyrule.
So to sum up so far: The world was made. The advanced Zonai race decended from the skies, taught the Sheikah their tech, built robots to mine Zonite, built the Temple of Time, and eventually Raru and Sonia founded Hyrule and became its first king and queen.
Ganondorf was then born and did not want to bow down and be united with Hyrule. But a demon lived inside him. He killed Sonia, took a Secret Stone, and his demon inside came out, and Ganondorf became known as the Demon King. Yes, this happens before Demise. Stick with me. A war breaks loose known as the Imprisoning War, and Rauru gathers sages and, through sacrificing himself, Rauru seals Ganondorf deep underground, warning Ganondorf (or the Demon within him) that a hero with the blade to repel evil will one day come for him. How can this be, when the Master Sword wasn't forged yet?
Because Rauru's decendants made the Goddess Sword.
We know Rauru and Sonia had a child, as Sonia is a blood relative to Zelda. This means this child is part Zonai, part hylian and has the blood of the original "Goddess". Because the Royal Family now has blood of Zonai as well as the Godess, it explains why Zeldas in the future has both the power of light and time. Rauru and Sonia's child may very well be named Hylia, renamed after that first Goddess. I believe Rauru knew, and was even responsible for, the creation of the Goddess Sword. Look at its design - its neon-green color is perfectly Zonai in nature:
https://preview.redd.it/cie84sm12e3b1.png?width=319&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce572c999b39d1f03f575e7441c1135009aa165a
The legends in the games says the "Godess Hylia made the sword", but that's the legend. The fact is that one of the first Hylia's long decendants made the sword, or Rauru himself did - or, Hylia the decendant made it, which fits. This is also why the ancient robots protect a Sacred Flame on the Sand Ship, because the Zonai constructed them too. This explains how Rauru knew a hero with this very sword would one day defeat Demise/Ganon's demon, because he knew of the sword's creation.
Thousands of year pass, and the Zonai are almost no more. Only Rauru and Sonia's long, long decendant named again Hylia of the royal family, as well as sages and the Sheikah who has kept the Zonai technology and knowledge, are alive. Perhaps a few Zonai are left, becoming more like savages and develops into their own branch... Keep that in mind.
Then one day, the demon within the Ganondorf who was sealed deep underground, leaks out through cracks in the earth.
https://preview.redd.it/hz0aqqdgee3b1.png?width=1427&format=png&auto=webp&s=51e63d6dd070302b7069088157505b6779cbf303
The demons, and Demise himself (the Demon King as he's also refered as), literally comes out from where Ganondorf is sealed. The Demon has left Ganondorf's body and is now in his pure form. Demise is the true form of the demon that resided within Ganondorf all those years ago during the Imprisoning War, and he has now ascended from Ganondorf's body and up to the surface. And as we see, the scar from the Tear that Ganondorf used can still be seen in Demise's forehead:
https://preview.redd.it/2v3kfcq53e3b1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=5477922f92f233d6914949efbf411a9a3b5c6611
Hylia and the rest manage, through their Zonai technology, to lift the land into the sky just like her ancestors of the Zonai could. She then keeps fighting, uses the Triforce, and seals Demise.
Thousands of years pass, and the ancient Hyrule on the surface fade into legend. Only Gorons and other species are left down there, and the ancient Rito are now exctinct. Skyward Sword happens, and at the end of the game, Demise finally unleashes the never-ending curse upon Link and Zelda. THIS explains why there is no Link or Master Sword during TOTK's memories - because Demise's curse isn't active yet. SS doesn't show the origin of Ganondorf, but rather the origin of the curse. From THIS point on, a boy with a hero's spirit and the godess' blood are reborn anew alongside Demise's incarnations.
People later start to learn of the Sacred Realm and the Triforce and conflict came from it. Rauru, most likely a long decendant from Rauru and Sonia, thus built the second Temple of Time in history, made that the only entrance to the Sacred Realm and sealed it behind the Door of Time. Even though the Zonai who served the gods are long gone, there are a few humans remaining who were long decendants of the Zonai and thus still posess their magic. Due to their dangerous magic and evil intentions, they are banished to a different world called the Twilight Realm, and their ancient magic are sealed within what's called the Fused Shadow. Why is the Twili the same as the Zonai?
Because first of all, it's never stated WHO got banished, only that they were interlopers who were skilled at magic. And they are shown as hylians, but they have Zonai blood (just like Zelda has Hylia's blood and thus her magic). The Zonai blood still remains in certain hylians after mating with them for eons. These hylians, now transformed into the Twili after being in the Twilight Realm for so long, still posess their ancient ancestor's magic, seen through their green magic, their anti-gravity magic, and Swirl Symbols. The Fused Shadow is filled with Zonai Swirls and even has serpants breathing fire, another very common Zonai symbolism. And hell, even Zant's throne is filled with Zonai Swirls identical to the ones we see in BOTW and TOTK... and, at the top of the throne, we even see a big Zonai Eye symbol...
https://preview.redd.it/8ty2t8lv7e3b1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=6710347bfcf561f113735e900c9e45f9ca6fc419
There is literally more evidence of the Twili being long decendants of the Zonai than evidence that contradicts it.
Zelda and Link's decendants later brings all lands together and founds the new Hyrule once again.
A civil war breaks out, and from there, Ocarina of Time occurs, and events repeat themselves in an eerily similar matter as they did all those thousands of years ago; Ganondorf is born and does not want to be under Hyrule's regime. Yet, at this time still, the ancient corpse of Ganondorf is trapped deep, deep underground. People say two Ganondorfs cannot exist at once. But why not? The Ganondorf from deep underground is essentially dead, and the Demon powers aren't in him. He's basically kept on ice through countless thousands of years. The very first Ganondorf is sealed deep below the Earth throughout all of the Zelda games.
After all the games, X amount of years pass and we end up with the Great Calamity, where this malice from the ancient Ganondorf finally leaks out, and the Sheikah (who still has the technological knowledge they learned from the Zonai all those years ago) constructs the Divine Beasts and Guardians. Coincidence that Sheikah's protectors (Guardians) are called the same as the presumably Zonai-constructed Guardians from SS?
The Sheikah are then "banished" by the king for being too dangerous (again, that happened to the Zonai, only more dramatic back then). The Yiga Clan that forms here is similar to what happened to the Zonai. Zonai and Sheikah became the Twili and Yiga Clan. Again, history mirrors itself. Master Kogah of the Yiga Clan? Crazy and unpredictable? Sounds familiar to Zant, doesn't it?
And even though the pure Zonai race was gone long before Ocarina of Time, their remains can still be found throughout the series - as seen with the Twilight Realm and the symbols and magical similarities. If these are built by the Zonai when they were still fully present, or if they're made by hidden decendants in the present times, is unknown.
The Tower of the Gods share the same dot-connected pattern as both the Fused Shadow and the Sheikah Technology in BOTW. Tower of the Gods is also filled with Zonai square swirls, especially in the boss arena and the boss itself. The boss (Gohdan) is even designed like a Zonai construct with its mask design, eye symbols and the blue-green colors and yellow top.
https://preview.redd.it/rzt5jhzeje3b1.png?width=1499&format=png&auto=webp&s=5fa4e75c11a44ed1a37c9759267194219efc85ca
As you see in BOTW and TOTK, there are 2 main swirl designs the Zonai are known for: The square swirls as seen in the pics above, and the rounded ones with a little tail at the end. This may represent different lineages of the Zonai, where the square ones represent the original good ones, and the rounded ones represent the lineage that evolved into being more barbaric and eventually become the interlopers.
The Earth Temple from the Wind Waker shares a fun similarity to BOTW's barbarian armor. HIGHLY probably a coincidence, but fun to think about nontheless:
https://preview.redd.it/5qgsp9qxje3b1.png?width=291&format=png&auto=webp&s=a94c1f2f5a137354a18534e5045ff12337d49b6d
https://preview.redd.it/gslkjox2ke3b1.png?width=1416&format=png&auto=webp&s=c97222afc078ce7f14bd95ae6477f13d30f379e4
Both the doors in the Earth Temple and the Barbarian Armor set have skulls and pink-purple hair or spikes. May again be a coincidence. However...
https://preview.redd.it/7yrgp57fke3b1.png?width=1429&format=png&auto=webp&s=1fa1986cd32e8bcc24d1331c97a7b86a00fa0393
The temple also seem to be filled with ancient symbols that are not Hylian. And, most importantly...
https://preview.redd.it/zy8php1ske3b1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=3286dc53f59556b640c5d7891d13fee5922fee83
The boss of the temple seem to have the Zonai swirl on his belly, alongside the swirls all along the arena walls. This one is a long reach, but it's fun to theorize if the Earth Temple is an ancient Zonai constructed temple. It's worth noting that the boss wears a mask, a staple among the Zonai... It is possible that the Earth Temple has acted as a prison for the savage Zonai at one point.
The demon within the deeply sealed Ganondorf leaked through the ground and escaped thousands of years later. This demon was known as Demise. The scar on his forhead comes from Ganondorf's earlier Tear placement there. Hylia used her ancestor's technology and/or magic to once again raise islands into the sky. Demise was sealed, and Hyrule became forgotten and only certain races survived and lived on the surface. Demise broke free, Link (the first hero) was born and found the old Zonai Goddess sword, forged it into the Master Sword, and defeated Demise. Demise's curse was created, binding the 3 of them together for eternity. The old, deceased corpse of Ganondorf was still sealed deep, deep below the Earth.
Generations pass, decendants of the Zonai who has become power-hungry and dangerous in magic, was sealed to the Twilight Realm. Rauru, a decendant/relative of Rauru and Sonia, built the second Temple of Time and blocked it off with the Door of Time. Hyrule was once again united and founded.
A civil war broke loose and the Hero of Time was born. Ganondorf was born again with the power of the Demon King, while the ancient first Ganondorf was still sealed deep below the ground. The timeline split. Various artifacts and structures from the ancient Zonai can still be found.
In the distant future, the sealed ancient Ganon has his powers leak through the depths and into the world as Calamity Ganon. The Sheikah, having passed down the ancient Zonai knowledge through all generations, makes weapons to defeat it. 10 000 years later, Calamity Ganon comes back, and is eventually defeated. Link and Zelda then finds the very first Ganondorf from eons back, sealed deep below Hyrule Castle. The war depicted on the walls is the very first war. The first war against Ganondorf and the demon Demise.
Hyrule has been founded many times throughout history, and the Zonai Rauru and the Hylia decendant Sonia founded the very first one, way before Skyward Sword.
submitted by WwwWario to tearsofthekingdom [link] [comments]
https://www.reddit.com/tearsofthekingdom/comments/13rdwog/the_zonai_have_been_in_the_story_this_whole_time/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Strap in, because this is a long one! Spoilers for Tears of the Kingdom, Breath of the Wild, and Skyward Sword.
I'm a believer that the lore in Zelda isn't just slapped on. They've said at least since 2001 that they have documents written about how each game connect, and when they put so much work into describing symbols and potential backstories for small things in THREE different books, I think it's safe to say that the connected lore is important to Nintendo.
But, before I go on with my theory, it's important to establish something I've just recently started to think about: The Legend of Zelda are LEGENDS in the games. I believe each game shows what really happened in those times, but because each game is so far apart, the events of other games are merely myths and legends within the world of Zelda, as many games explain many times. Aka, what happens in the games is true, but the stories told within the games are legends. How the world was created, who the godesses were, what happened i previous eras, etc. that are explained in-game are how the residents of the world at that time interprates history, because it's all (again) legends and myths.
One of the major head twisters in TOTK is "Where is anything taking place?!". Is TOTK's memories between SS and OOT? Or in the distant future, before BOTW? Where is the Great Calamity 10 000 years before BOTW taking place? Does it happen before all other games, and that 10 000 year gap is our timeline of games? Etc.
BOTW is confirmed to be far, far into the future compared to all other games, which means the same for TOTK. Wether the timelines have merged, or if only 1 is canon and the others are legends within this world, or if all are canon and this is still in one of the timelines, is unknown. But where is TOTK's memories taking place?
I believe they happen in the distant past, even before Skyward Sword.
There are several things that goes against this, I know; Hyrule was established after SS, not before it. Demise was the origin of Ganondorf, so it can't take place before SS. They talk about the Master Sword, but that wasn't forged until SS.
Well, let's begin (and keep in mind, this is purely FUN for me to do! I love lore that is very hidden and subtile like in the Zelda universe. Weather it's correct or not, I'm still having a blast, so don't shoot me for getting certain things wrong or for disagreeing with me haha).
THE SECRET HISTORY BEFORE SKYWARD SWORD
The world was created by Din, Farore and Nayru, and the godess Hylia is said to be the protecter of the Triforce. I believe she wasn't a spiritual pure godess so to speak, but a human with goddess powers, aka like Zelda, and her family protected the Triforce for generations as the Triforce is hidden in the Sacred Realm. Through legend and myth, she was believed to be a goddess as she was the first one to show magical powers.The Zonai was one of the very first races to exist alongside humans, and they were living in islands in the sky. They were blessed with technological knowledge to help and serve the gods. They decended upon the land, and people thought they were gods at first due to their appearance, magic, and highly advanced technology.
The world flurished, and the Zonai created the ancient robots seen in Skyward Sword, and later the Temple of Time in Lanayru seen in both TOTK and Skyward Sword. Why and how, you ask? In SS, we learn the robots were active thousands of years prior to the game, meaning an advanced civilization lived thousands of years before SS. The robots' body parts are connected with energy just like Zonai constructs. The robots' ship, the Sand Ship, has the Zonai swirl symbol on it, which even is confirmed in one of the 3 Zelda lore books to be the clear symbol for the Zonai.
https://preview.redd.it/yk85sjfbzd3b1.png?width=728&format=png&auto=webp&s=45d3a957ea367fbf8130370c6bfbf1ab5b380200
Aka, this Sand Ship is a Zonai ship, and those ancient robots are Zonai robots. There is no question. Why else would they choose to use this symbol in these places? Now, what were the robots mining in the Lanayru Mining Facility? Probably Zonite. As we see when using Timeshift Stones, Lanayru was once filled with green fields of grass in the ancient past.
And what's right next to the Mining Facility? The broken Temple of Time. And what is almost directly blow TOTK's Temple of Time? The Abandonded Central Mine. And what do we see in TOTK's memories? A fully in-tact Temple of Time, in green fields, built with very similar white-stone material to the one from Skwyard Sword:
https://preview.redd.it/xbic4jxozd3b1.png?width=1343&format=png&auto=webp&s=66a274e358ad8c9a4c0935d9ceb589a77022061d
https://preview.redd.it/jhtoqtx20e3b1.png?width=1427&format=png&auto=webp&s=85ea6251b78232dbe865cf8fca35b6abdfce5271
In other words: Both in Skwyard Sword and TOTK, we see the first Temple of Time, and both have mines next to them. It's the same temple. The ONLY thing I cannot figure out, is that the TOTK temple is said to have been sent to the sky as a hero was destined to awaken there. So if the SS and TOTK temples are the same, but the SS temple has decayed, when did it rise back into the sky as a fully constructed temple again? Here I need your help.
Now, Rauru, the sage of light from OOT, is written to have built "the second Temple of Time", meaning this one in SS is the first one. King Rauru built the first Temple of Time, and light sage Rauru was named after him and built the second temple thousands of years later. It all makes sense.
Rauru has Secret Stones, perhahs he made them himself or they were gifts from the Gods.
Years passed after the temple and robots' creation, and the Zonai tribe became less and less (not sure how, but probably due to marrying and breeding with humans). The Sheikah tribe who protects the Royal Family is taught the technology from the Zonai. Rauru married Sonia (a decendant of Hylia who thus posessed magical powers), and the two of them finally united all the lands and created Hyrule.
So to sum up so far: The world was made. The advanced Zonai race decended from the skies, taught the Sheikah their tech, built robots to mine Zonite, built the Temple of Time, and eventually Raru and Sonia founded Hyrule and became its first king and queen.
Ganondorf was then born and did not want to bow down and be united with Hyrule. But a demon lived inside him. He killed Sonia, took a Secret Stone, and his demon inside came out, and Ganondorf became known as the Demon King. Yes, this happens before Demise. Stick with me. A war breaks loose known as the Imprisoning War, and Rauru gathers sages and, through sacrificing himself, Rauru seals Ganondorf deep underground, warning Ganondorf (or the Demon within him) that a hero with the blade to repel evil will one day come for him. How can this be, when the Master Sword wasn't forged yet?
Because Rauru's decendants made the Goddess Sword.
We know Rauru and Sonia had a child, as Sonia is a blood relative to Zelda. This means this child is part Zonai, part hylian and has the blood of the original "Goddess". Because the Royal Family now has blood of Zonai as well as the Godess, it explains why Zeldas in the future has both the power of light and time. Rauru and Sonia's child may very well be named Hylia, renamed after that first Goddess. I believe Rauru knew, and was even responsible for, the creation of the Goddess Sword. Look at its design - its neon-green color is perfectly Zonai in nature:
https://preview.redd.it/cie84sm12e3b1.png?width=319&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce572c999b39d1f03f575e7441c1135009aa165a
The legends in the games says the "Godess Hylia made the sword", but that's the legend. The fact is that one of the first Hylia's long decendants made the sword, or Rauru himself did - or, Hylia the decendant made it, which fits. This is also why the ancient robots protect a Sacred Flame on the Sand Ship, because the Zonai constructed them too. This explains how Rauru knew a hero with this very sword would one day defeat Demise/Ganon's demon, because he knew of the sword's creation.
Thousands of year pass, and the Zonai are almost no more. Only Rauru and Sonia's long, long decendant named again Hylia of the royal family, as well as sages and the Sheikah who has kept the Zonai technology and knowledge, are alive. Perhaps a few Zonai are left, becoming more like savages and develops into their own branch... Keep that in mind.
Then one day, the demon within the Ganondorf who was sealed deep underground, leaks out through cracks in the earth.
https://preview.redd.it/hz0aqqdgee3b1.png?width=1427&format=png&auto=webp&s=51e63d6dd070302b7069088157505b6779cbf303
The demons, and Demise himself (the Demon King as he's also refered as), literally comes out from where Ganondorf is sealed. The Demon has left Ganondorf's body and is now in his pure form. Demise is the true form of the demon that resided within Ganondorf all those years ago during the Imprisoning War, and he has now ascended from Ganondorf's body and up to the surface. And as we see, the scar from the Tear that Ganondorf used can still be seen in Demise's forehead:
https://preview.redd.it/2v3kfcq53e3b1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=5477922f92f233d6914949efbf411a9a3b5c6611
Hylia and the rest manage, through their Zonai technology, to lift the land into the sky just like her ancestors of the Zonai could. She then keeps fighting, uses the Triforce, and seals Demise.
Thousands of years pass, and the ancient Hyrule on the surface fade into legend. Only Gorons and other species are left down there, and the ancient Rito are now exctinct. Skyward Sword happens, and at the end of the game, Demise finally unleashes the never-ending curse upon Link and Zelda. THIS explains why there is no Link or Master Sword during TOTK's memories - because Demise's curse isn't active yet. SS doesn't show the origin of Ganondorf, but rather the origin of the curse. From THIS point on, a boy with a hero's spirit and the godess' blood are reborn anew alongside Demise's incarnations.
People later start to learn of the Sacred Realm and the Triforce and conflict came from it. Rauru, most likely a long decendant from Rauru and Sonia, thus built the second Temple of Time in history, made that the only entrance to the Sacred Realm and sealed it behind the Door of Time. Even though the Zonai who served the gods are long gone, there are a few humans remaining who were long decendants of the Zonai and thus still posess their magic. Due to their dangerous magic and evil intentions, they are banished to a different world called the Twilight Realm, and their ancient magic are sealed within what's called the Fused Shadow. Why is the Twili the same as the Zonai?
Because first of all, it's never stated WHO got banished, only that they were interlopers who were skilled at magic. And they are shown as hylians, but they have Zonai blood (just like Zelda has Hylia's blood and thus her magic). The Zonai blood still remains in certain hylians after mating with them for eons. These hylians, now transformed into the Twili after being in the Twilight Realm for so long, still posess their ancient ancestor's magic, seen through their green magic, their anti-gravity magic, and Swirl Symbols. The Fused Shadow is filled with Zonai Swirls and even has serpants breathing fire, another very common Zonai symbolism. And hell, even Zant's throne is filled with Zonai Swirls identical to the ones we see in BOTW and TOTK... and, at the top of the throne, we even see a big Zonai Eye symbol...
https://preview.redd.it/8ty2t8lv7e3b1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=6710347bfcf561f113735e900c9e45f9ca6fc419
There is literally more evidence of the Twili being long decendants of the Zonai than evidence that contradicts it.
Zelda and Link's decendants later brings all lands together and founds the new Hyrule once again.
A civil war breaks out, and from there, Ocarina of Time occurs, and events repeat themselves in an eerily similar matter as they did all those thousands of years ago; Ganondorf is born and does not want to be under Hyrule's regime. Yet, at this time still, the ancient corpse of Ganondorf is trapped deep, deep underground. People say two Ganondorfs cannot exist at once. But why not? The Ganondorf from deep underground is essentially dead, and the Demon powers aren't in him. He's basically kept on ice through countless thousands of years. The very first Ganondorf is sealed deep below the Earth throughout all of the Zelda games.
After all the games, X amount of years pass and we end up with the Great Calamity, where this malice from the ancient Ganondorf finally leaks out, and the Sheikah (who still has the technological knowledge they learned from the Zonai all those years ago) constructs the Divine Beasts and Guardians. Coincidence that Sheikah's protectors (Guardians) are called the same as the presumably Zonai-constructed Guardians from SS?
The Sheikah are then "banished" by the king for being too dangerous (again, that happened to the Zonai, only more dramatic back then). The Yiga Clan that forms here is similar to what happened to the Zonai. Zonai and Sheikah became the Twili and Yiga Clan. Again, history mirrors itself. Master Kogah of the Yiga Clan? Crazy and unpredictable? Sounds familiar to Zant, doesn't it?
And even though the pure Zonai race was gone long before Ocarina of Time, their remains can still be found throughout the series - as seen with the Twilight Realm and the symbols and magical similarities. If these are built by the Zonai when they were still fully present, or if they're made by hidden decendants in the present times, is unknown.
The Tower of the Gods share the same dot-connected pattern as both the Fused Shadow and the Sheikah Technology in BOTW. Tower of the Gods is also filled with Zonai square swirls, especially in the boss arena and the boss itself. The boss (Gohdan) is even designed like a Zonai construct with its mask design, eye symbols and the blue-green colors and yellow top.
https://preview.redd.it/rzt5jhzeje3b1.png?width=1499&format=png&auto=webp&s=5fa4e75c11a44ed1a37c9759267194219efc85ca
As you see in BOTW and TOTK, there are 2 main swirl designs the Zonai are known for: The square swirls as seen in the pics above, and the rounded ones with a little tail at the end. This may represent different lineages of the Zonai, where the square ones represent the original good ones, and the rounded ones represent the lineage that evolved into being more barbaric and eventually become the interlopers.
The Earth Temple from the Wind Waker shares a fun similarity to BOTW's barbarian armor. HIGHLY probably a coincidence, but fun to think about nontheless:
https://preview.redd.it/5qgsp9qxje3b1.png?width=291&format=png&auto=webp&s=a94c1f2f5a137354a18534e5045ff12337d49b6d
https://preview.redd.it/gslkjox2ke3b1.png?width=1416&format=png&auto=webp&s=c97222afc078ce7f14bd95ae6477f13d30f379e4
Both the doors in the Earth Temple and the Barbarian Armor set have skulls and pink-purple hair or spikes. May again be a coincidence. However...
https://preview.redd.it/7yrgp57fke3b1.png?width=1429&format=png&auto=webp&s=1fa1986cd32e8bcc24d1331c97a7b86a00fa0393
The temple also seem to be filled with ancient symbols that are not Hylian. And, most importantly...
https://preview.redd.it/zy8php1ske3b1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=3286dc53f59556b640c5d7891d13fee5922fee83
The boss of the temple seem to have the Zonai swirl on his belly, alongside the swirls all along the arena walls. This one is a long reach, but it's fun to theorize if the Earth Temple is an ancient Zonai constructed temple. It's worth noting that the boss wears a mask, a staple among the Zonai... It is possible that the Earth Temple has acted as a prison for the savage Zonai at one point.
THE SUMMARY
World was created. Zonai served the gods in the beginning and were highly advanced. Hylia was the first woman who posessed godlike powers and she was a human. Sheikah was a tribe who protected her and her family, aka the royal family. The Zonai decended to the lands and created the ancient robots, a ship for them, and had them mine Zonite in the Lanayru Mining Facility. They taught the Sheikah their technology. They married with humans and the races started to merge. Various structures were built, including Tower of the Gods. The original Temple of Time was created close to the mine, and Rauru the Zonai and Sonia the human brought the lands together and made Hyrule. Ganondorf was born and had a demon inside him, and he killed Sonia and took one of the Secret Stones, bringing out the demon within him. Rauru created, or started the process of creating, the Goddess Sword. Ganondorf was later sealed deep underground by Rauru and the sages he chose. The pure Zonai race faded into legend but blood relatives in form of humans remains.The demon within the deeply sealed Ganondorf leaked through the ground and escaped thousands of years later. This demon was known as Demise. The scar on his forhead comes from Ganondorf's earlier Tear placement there. Hylia used her ancestor's technology and/or magic to once again raise islands into the sky. Demise was sealed, and Hyrule became forgotten and only certain races survived and lived on the surface. Demise broke free, Link (the first hero) was born and found the old Zonai Goddess sword, forged it into the Master Sword, and defeated Demise. Demise's curse was created, binding the 3 of them together for eternity. The old, deceased corpse of Ganondorf was still sealed deep, deep below the Earth.
Generations pass, decendants of the Zonai who has become power-hungry and dangerous in magic, was sealed to the Twilight Realm. Rauru, a decendant/relative of Rauru and Sonia, built the second Temple of Time and blocked it off with the Door of Time. Hyrule was once again united and founded.
A civil war broke loose and the Hero of Time was born. Ganondorf was born again with the power of the Demon King, while the ancient first Ganondorf was still sealed deep below the ground. The timeline split. Various artifacts and structures from the ancient Zonai can still be found.
In the distant future, the sealed ancient Ganon has his powers leak through the depths and into the world as Calamity Ganon. The Sheikah, having passed down the ancient Zonai knowledge through all generations, makes weapons to defeat it. 10 000 years later, Calamity Ganon comes back, and is eventually defeated. Link and Zelda then finds the very first Ganondorf from eons back, sealed deep below Hyrule Castle. The war depicted on the walls is the very first war. The first war against Ganondorf and the demon Demise.
Hyrule has been founded many times throughout history, and the Zonai Rauru and the Hylia decendant Sonia founded the very first one, way before Skyward Sword.
2023.06.01 04:48 ValentinePatch1999 [TotK] [SPOILERS] Where I believe Tears of the Kingdom falls in the Zelda Timeline, both past and present events
Introduction
If you're a follower of the Zelda timeline, I have a theory that can hopefully explain how Tears of the Kingdom integrates into the greater Zelda timeline. Keep in mind that I haven't beaten Ganondorf yet, but know everything else, even the memories and Light Dragon.
Since around 2011/2012, there have been officially three Zelda timelines that happen after Ocarina of Time. Before that though, Skyward Sword and Minish Cap preceded OoT. Now, let me give a brief rundown of the already established timeline. You can skip the following paragraph if you already know it.
Timeline Rundown before BotW
After OoT, the timeline split into three branches, two of which resulted from Link defeating Ganon at the end and one where he died trying. The two timelines were called the Child Link and Adult Link timelines because, like Avengers Endgame, the timeline where Ganon was defeated by Adult Link didn't just disappear. The timeline continued existing with Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks. Adult Link returned into his child form and lived out the remainder of his childhood life beginning with Majora's Mask. Twilight Princess and Four Swords Adventures took place after that. Finally, we have the timeline where Link died fighting Ganon, and the games that took place after this were a Link to the Past, the Oracle games, Link's Awakening, Link Between Worlds, Triforce Heroes, and the original two Zeldas.
Placement of BotW and TotK
Now, we come to Breath of the Wild. It's been widely debated whether it follows a specific timeline branch or is a result of the three timelines being unified. If the three timelines were "unified" then how would that even happen, let alone offscreen? There has to be some sort of big event that explains why the timelines reunited. We know that BotW is confirmed to be after OoT. Ultimately, for the sake of those arguments, I'll put down BotW in the Child Link timeline after Four Swords Adventures because of a comment Zelda says in one of the memories mentioning a hero in the "glowing embers of twilight" or something like that, as well as the Ritos being their own different species existing at the same time as the Zoras as opposed to an evolved form of Zoras that have gone extinct, as shown in Wind Waker, so that eliminates the adult timeline placement.
With Tears of the Kingdom, this whole game kind of threw me for a loop with the timeline placement, starting with what is shown as Hyrule's apparent beginning in the past TotK events. The events of Skyward Sword still have to take place, due to Demise's curse, but the TotK past events have to take place before OoT because Rauru was the very first king of Hyrule, despite the Zonai having no mention in Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, or Ocarina of Time. I would like to provide some evidence that can have both past and present events of TotK fit in with the greater timeline.
Ganondorf's Curse
The Ganondorf that we see in TotK has to be the very first Ganondorf even before OoT. You may be thinking, "How can two Ganondorfs exist at the same time?" Well, maybe Demise's curse found a way to duplicate itself from the Ganondorf sealed by King Rauru and found itself inside a new Ganondorf, the Ganondorf that we see in OoT (and, following that, WW, TP, aLttP, etc.). Seemingly less powerful than TotK Ganondorf, but still a formidable threat nonetheless. More recently, we have already seen Demise's curse duplicate once more when Ganondorf was still sealed by Rauru, but the entity known as Calamity Ganon still existed and wreaked havoc above ground. Also, given that a male Gerudo is born once every 100 years, there can be an explanation that the Zonai-sealed Ganondorf is, by all means, temporarily dead, thus allowing another male Gerudo to (somehow) be born, one of them being OoT Ganondorf.
Zonai History
The sky islands are another major player in determining the placement as well. As said before, we see no mention of the Zonai in Skyward Sword, so maybe the Zonai had an additional Skyloft-like civilization that came down after the Hylians settled down on the surface some time after the events of Skyward Sword, assumedly long after SS Link and Zelda are dead. Maybe the Zonai were also chosen by the Goddess Hylia, or a god of their own, to force other pieces of Zonai land, the sky islands, above the clouds just like Skyloft, but maybe in another part of the planet. Long after SS, the Zonai found a way to move their sky islands above the newly-named Hyrule and send them down to the surface with their prime objective to live among the newly found Hylians and coexist with many of them who mistook them for gods. Even though there are no other Zonai we see other than Rauru and Mineru, that doesn't mean that something didn't happen to the Zonai that caused their extinction. The most likely event is that the Hylians were growing more overall racist toward the Zonai and, after a Hylian-Zonai war, were forced them back to their sky islands and flee back upward, causing the Zonai to slowly die out without enough land to cultivate their crops. It's either that or the Zonai agreeing to leave Hyrule on their own after Rauru's death due to not trusting Hylians with their tech, or their population simply dying out on their own. In any case, something must have happened to the rest of the Zonai after Rauru and Mineru's "deaths" that caused them to not only go extinct, but also keep the history and technology of the Zonai under wraps, leading to no mention of the Zonai during Ocarina of Time or any game afterward with the exception of BotW.
The name "Rauru"
Some minor additional evidence is that the the Light Sage Rauru that we see in OoT has to be named after the first King Rauru as well, so that can't just be a coincidence. This also shows that some Hylians still secretly hold the Zonai in high esteem.
TotK Present
Now we go to the present events of TotK. King Rauru's seal is slowly being broken and Ganondorf becomes fully revived, coincidentally when BotW Link and Zelda stumble upon him below Hyrule Castle. Given that we see no other male Gerudos in either BotW or TotK, we can see that this Ganondorf is the new "reborn" male Gerudo who has been slowly regaining consciousness possibly as far back as several years, decades, or even centuries, before the past events of BotW. I believe that a piece of dark energy broke off from Ganondorf's sealed corpse and slowly manifested itself into Calamity Ganon, slowly building its strength until it attempted to destroy everything three separate times. This goes back to Demise's curse duplicating itself. Maybe OoT Ganondorf was born a normal male Gerudo, and a past piece of dark energy from Zonai-Sealed Ganondorf's corpse found its way to him in his early life. If that's true, then it's poetic that we come full circle in TotK with defeating the very first Ganondorf, the one that predated all others, with the latest incarnations of Link and Zelda because I know Zelda's dragon form has to play a key role in the final fight.
Apologies if that took a few long paragraphs to say, but I want to get that theory of mine across before I defeat Ganondorf below Hyrule Castle in a few hours. Hopefully this explains a lot.
submitted by ValentinePatch1999 to truezelda [link] [comments]
If you're a follower of the Zelda timeline, I have a theory that can hopefully explain how Tears of the Kingdom integrates into the greater Zelda timeline. Keep in mind that I haven't beaten Ganondorf yet, but know everything else, even the memories and Light Dragon.
Since around 2011/2012, there have been officially three Zelda timelines that happen after Ocarina of Time. Before that though, Skyward Sword and Minish Cap preceded OoT. Now, let me give a brief rundown of the already established timeline. You can skip the following paragraph if you already know it.
Timeline Rundown before BotW
After OoT, the timeline split into three branches, two of which resulted from Link defeating Ganon at the end and one where he died trying. The two timelines were called the Child Link and Adult Link timelines because, like Avengers Endgame, the timeline where Ganon was defeated by Adult Link didn't just disappear. The timeline continued existing with Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks. Adult Link returned into his child form and lived out the remainder of his childhood life beginning with Majora's Mask. Twilight Princess and Four Swords Adventures took place after that. Finally, we have the timeline where Link died fighting Ganon, and the games that took place after this were a Link to the Past, the Oracle games, Link's Awakening, Link Between Worlds, Triforce Heroes, and the original two Zeldas.
Placement of BotW and TotK
Now, we come to Breath of the Wild. It's been widely debated whether it follows a specific timeline branch or is a result of the three timelines being unified. If the three timelines were "unified" then how would that even happen, let alone offscreen? There has to be some sort of big event that explains why the timelines reunited. We know that BotW is confirmed to be after OoT. Ultimately, for the sake of those arguments, I'll put down BotW in the Child Link timeline after Four Swords Adventures because of a comment Zelda says in one of the memories mentioning a hero in the "glowing embers of twilight" or something like that, as well as the Ritos being their own different species existing at the same time as the Zoras as opposed to an evolved form of Zoras that have gone extinct, as shown in Wind Waker, so that eliminates the adult timeline placement.
With Tears of the Kingdom, this whole game kind of threw me for a loop with the timeline placement, starting with what is shown as Hyrule's apparent beginning in the past TotK events. The events of Skyward Sword still have to take place, due to Demise's curse, but the TotK past events have to take place before OoT because Rauru was the very first king of Hyrule, despite the Zonai having no mention in Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, or Ocarina of Time. I would like to provide some evidence that can have both past and present events of TotK fit in with the greater timeline.
Ganondorf's Curse
The Ganondorf that we see in TotK has to be the very first Ganondorf even before OoT. You may be thinking, "How can two Ganondorfs exist at the same time?" Well, maybe Demise's curse found a way to duplicate itself from the Ganondorf sealed by King Rauru and found itself inside a new Ganondorf, the Ganondorf that we see in OoT (and, following that, WW, TP, aLttP, etc.). Seemingly less powerful than TotK Ganondorf, but still a formidable threat nonetheless. More recently, we have already seen Demise's curse duplicate once more when Ganondorf was still sealed by Rauru, but the entity known as Calamity Ganon still existed and wreaked havoc above ground. Also, given that a male Gerudo is born once every 100 years, there can be an explanation that the Zonai-sealed Ganondorf is, by all means, temporarily dead, thus allowing another male Gerudo to (somehow) be born, one of them being OoT Ganondorf.
Zonai History
The sky islands are another major player in determining the placement as well. As said before, we see no mention of the Zonai in Skyward Sword, so maybe the Zonai had an additional Skyloft-like civilization that came down after the Hylians settled down on the surface some time after the events of Skyward Sword, assumedly long after SS Link and Zelda are dead. Maybe the Zonai were also chosen by the Goddess Hylia, or a god of their own, to force other pieces of Zonai land, the sky islands, above the clouds just like Skyloft, but maybe in another part of the planet. Long after SS, the Zonai found a way to move their sky islands above the newly-named Hyrule and send them down to the surface with their prime objective to live among the newly found Hylians and coexist with many of them who mistook them for gods. Even though there are no other Zonai we see other than Rauru and Mineru, that doesn't mean that something didn't happen to the Zonai that caused their extinction. The most likely event is that the Hylians were growing more overall racist toward the Zonai and, after a Hylian-Zonai war, were forced them back to their sky islands and flee back upward, causing the Zonai to slowly die out without enough land to cultivate their crops. It's either that or the Zonai agreeing to leave Hyrule on their own after Rauru's death due to not trusting Hylians with their tech, or their population simply dying out on their own. In any case, something must have happened to the rest of the Zonai after Rauru and Mineru's "deaths" that caused them to not only go extinct, but also keep the history and technology of the Zonai under wraps, leading to no mention of the Zonai during Ocarina of Time or any game afterward with the exception of BotW.
The name "Rauru"
Some minor additional evidence is that the the Light Sage Rauru that we see in OoT has to be named after the first King Rauru as well, so that can't just be a coincidence. This also shows that some Hylians still secretly hold the Zonai in high esteem.
TotK Present
Now we go to the present events of TotK. King Rauru's seal is slowly being broken and Ganondorf becomes fully revived, coincidentally when BotW Link and Zelda stumble upon him below Hyrule Castle. Given that we see no other male Gerudos in either BotW or TotK, we can see that this Ganondorf is the new "reborn" male Gerudo who has been slowly regaining consciousness possibly as far back as several years, decades, or even centuries, before the past events of BotW. I believe that a piece of dark energy broke off from Ganondorf's sealed corpse and slowly manifested itself into Calamity Ganon, slowly building its strength until it attempted to destroy everything three separate times. This goes back to Demise's curse duplicating itself. Maybe OoT Ganondorf was born a normal male Gerudo, and a past piece of dark energy from Zonai-Sealed Ganondorf's corpse found its way to him in his early life. If that's true, then it's poetic that we come full circle in TotK with defeating the very first Ganondorf, the one that predated all others, with the latest incarnations of Link and Zelda because I know Zelda's dragon form has to play a key role in the final fight.
Apologies if that took a few long paragraphs to say, but I want to get that theory of mine across before I defeat Ganondorf below Hyrule Castle in a few hours. Hopefully this explains a lot.
2023.05.31 10:50 Nesugosu TotK placement in the timeline solution (?)
Disclosure: I haven't played the game myself buuut I've seen plenty of spoliers. If something I say is disproven by the game (which again, haven't played) let me know. Also, HUGE spoilers.
Main problem: Rauru claiming he's the founder King of Hyrule. Let's trust the bunny! Maybe the Zonai descended from the Heavens to "help" (cough take over cough) found the Kingdom! SS Link and Zelda are no more, but their descendant (daughter?) Sonia is around, she likes the guy that offered to help and makes him king consort or whatever. That's fine... But what is Ganondorf doing here when he's supposed to have been born in the era of OoT!?
So... This "solution" came to mind when I compared the new Sages to OoT Sages. Notice how the number stays the same but the "elements" they represent change a bit. But then, something weird: our "new" Sage of Spirit (Mineru) is a Zonai, NOT a Gerudo. The Gerudo have Thunder now.
Assuming BoTW (and the present portion of TotK) take place at the end of all timelines (weird convergence, #BlameHylia) like it has been said officially, what about the past portion of TotK? Answer: roughly 100 years before OoT.
The idea is, OoT Rauru is a descendant (let's say son) of Sonia and bunny Rauru. If I recall correctly, his domain as a Sage is Light AND Time, so that ads up. Mineru's descendants married into the Gerudo, giving them some latent Spirit abilities.
Let's also assume the original Ganondorf is TotK Dorf. Now, for how to make sense of this:
Ganondorf got sealed by bunny Rauru. The Gerudo were branded as traitors and exiled to a worse dessert outside of Hyrule, making them loose their connection to the goddesses, their Thunder powers and giving them round ears (pointy ears are stated to represent a connection with the goddesses in OoT. Better reception?). They kept some recessive Spirit genes courtesy of Mineru, hence Nabooru in OoT.
*Relationships between them and the Hylinans got fixed over time, they returned to the domain of the goddesses and gained their ears and Thunder back.
The funny stuff: The Twinrova are roughly 300 years old. They were around during all of this mess. They took a "sample" of Ganondorf's powers and stashed it away, just in case. 100 years pass, a new male Gerudo is born (OoT Ganondorf). He is untainted by Demise, as that guy is still sealed away... But his adoptive mothers inoculated him with some of the Demon King's essence (because they loved him so much) and he became the new vessel of Demise: an incomplete, inferior counterfeit with a fraction of his original power.
OoT happens, he gets the triforce of power blah blah blah timeline split then he FINALLY gets killed at the end of every timeline... Not a single male Gerudo was born again... Right? Well what if after all the problems that gave them the Gerudo decided to execute every baby boy as a tradition, just in case?
BoTW approaches, the seal starts to get weaker and leaks Calamity Ganon a couple of times, then it finally wears out in TotK's present and we got the OG Reincarnation of Demise back! Hurray!
Makes sense?
submitted by Nesugosu to TOTK [link] [comments]
Main problem: Rauru claiming he's the founder King of Hyrule. Let's trust the bunny! Maybe the Zonai descended from the Heavens to "help" (cough take over cough) found the Kingdom! SS Link and Zelda are no more, but their descendant (daughter?) Sonia is around, she likes the guy that offered to help and makes him king consort or whatever. That's fine... But what is Ganondorf doing here when he's supposed to have been born in the era of OoT!?
So... This "solution" came to mind when I compared the new Sages to OoT Sages. Notice how the number stays the same but the "elements" they represent change a bit. But then, something weird: our "new" Sage of Spirit (Mineru) is a Zonai, NOT a Gerudo. The Gerudo have Thunder now.
Assuming BoTW (and the present portion of TotK) take place at the end of all timelines (weird convergence, #BlameHylia) like it has been said officially, what about the past portion of TotK? Answer: roughly 100 years before OoT.
The idea is, OoT Rauru is a descendant (let's say son) of Sonia and bunny Rauru. If I recall correctly, his domain as a Sage is Light AND Time, so that ads up. Mineru's descendants married into the Gerudo, giving them some latent Spirit abilities.
Let's also assume the original Ganondorf is TotK Dorf. Now, for how to make sense of this:
Ganondorf got sealed by bunny Rauru. The Gerudo were branded as traitors and exiled to a worse dessert outside of Hyrule, making them loose their connection to the goddesses, their Thunder powers and giving them round ears (pointy ears are stated to represent a connection with the goddesses in OoT. Better reception?). They kept some recessive Spirit genes courtesy of Mineru, hence Nabooru in OoT.
*Relationships between them and the Hylinans got fixed over time, they returned to the domain of the goddesses and gained their ears and Thunder back.
The funny stuff: The Twinrova are roughly 300 years old. They were around during all of this mess. They took a "sample" of Ganondorf's powers and stashed it away, just in case. 100 years pass, a new male Gerudo is born (OoT Ganondorf). He is untainted by Demise, as that guy is still sealed away... But his adoptive mothers inoculated him with some of the Demon King's essence (because they loved him so much) and he became the new vessel of Demise: an incomplete, inferior counterfeit with a fraction of his original power.
OoT happens, he gets the triforce of power blah blah blah timeline split then he FINALLY gets killed at the end of every timeline... Not a single male Gerudo was born again... Right? Well what if after all the problems that gave them the Gerudo decided to execute every baby boy as a tradition, just in case?
BoTW approaches, the seal starts to get weaker and leaks Calamity Ganon a couple of times, then it finally wears out in TotK's present and we got the OG Reincarnation of Demise back! Hurray!
Makes sense?
2023.05.31 06:00 Hal_Keaton [Totk] What is your opinion on the canonicity of the legacy items?
This post will contain some spoilers for items you can acquire, and how they are acquired. Please read at your own risk.
As most of us know by now, Totk has brought back all of the DLC and amiibo items from BotW, but this time they are placed natively around the world for players to find.
Of course, the development reason for these additions is they already had the assets and it would have been easy to implement. However, lore-wise, the fact that these items come from different timelines brings about a lot of questions, more questions than answers.
With Botw, it was easy to just handwave them away as fun gimmicks you can use or dress Link up as. But with many of the items being available in Totk, with side-quests or placed in old ruins, this is a bit harder to do. Especially since they took the time to rewrite some of these items names or descriptions, like how the Sword of the Six Sages is now the Dusk Claymore or how the Twilight Tunic now has a description including wolf fur on it.
Of course, you can still technically just call them easter eggs and call it a day. As of now, I myself have no particular opinion yet because there is a lot to parse through. I tend to lean towards "just easter eggs" but even then, some items are harder to ignore than others.
For example, Midna's Helmet is pretty easy to ignore because it got crushed at the end of TP. Plus, it has her hair... which isn't technically accurate anyways. However, the Dusk Bow is the only legacy item in the game that is just out in the open like other weapons. It is not even in a chest.
Functionally, the DLC and Amiibo legacy items can be found via four forms: In the Depths, from Misko Side Quests (essentially cave spelunking), purchasing from Poe Collectors (kind of Depths adjacent), and in miscellaneous spots in Hyrule (which is the rarest way to find these items).
To help facilitate discussion, I'll list out which items belong to which of these categories.
The Depths
These are armor sets that can be found throughout the Depths. Some must be acquired after beating a coliseum, while others are places throughout various locations in the world below.
Opinion: The fact that the Tunic of the Wild and the Tunic of Memories are items found in the Depths along side items like Zant's Helmet really gives me "we added this for fun, not lore" category. Functionally, there is no lore reason for the Tunic of the Wild to even be down in the Depths. It is supposed to be BotW Link's outfit, given to him by the ancient Sheikah Monks.
Misko Side Quests
Misko is a bandit with an eye for fashion. He has apparently... "collected" outfits from all over the world, and and has hidden them across Hyrule for the lucky winners to find. Unlike the Depth's armor, these armors aren't just sitting around. They have real quests attached.
The Unique Ways
Finally, we have the last few items, which are not found via Misko quests or the Depths. These items instead are found in various ways across the game, some more involved than others
That still doesn't really answer all the questions. Phantom Ganon's gear should also technically be impossible, as well as the White Sword of the Sky. And the Island Lobster Shirt existing with the Dusk weapons suggests two different timelines at the same time.
I don't really have a stance on these legacy items as of now. But I was curious what others thought. I have seen some people wave them all away as merely fun references, but some suggest that the fact they exist in the game natively at all suggests they are all canon.
What do you think? I would love to hear the community's thoughts, so we can improve our understanding of the lore of this world.
submitted by Hal_Keaton to truezelda [link] [comments]
As most of us know by now, Totk has brought back all of the DLC and amiibo items from BotW, but this time they are placed natively around the world for players to find.
Of course, the development reason for these additions is they already had the assets and it would have been easy to implement. However, lore-wise, the fact that these items come from different timelines brings about a lot of questions, more questions than answers.
With Botw, it was easy to just handwave them away as fun gimmicks you can use or dress Link up as. But with many of the items being available in Totk, with side-quests or placed in old ruins, this is a bit harder to do. Especially since they took the time to rewrite some of these items names or descriptions, like how the Sword of the Six Sages is now the Dusk Claymore or how the Twilight Tunic now has a description including wolf fur on it.
Of course, you can still technically just call them easter eggs and call it a day. As of now, I myself have no particular opinion yet because there is a lot to parse through. I tend to lean towards "just easter eggs" but even then, some items are harder to ignore than others.
For example, Midna's Helmet is pretty easy to ignore because it got crushed at the end of TP. Plus, it has her hair... which isn't technically accurate anyways. However, the Dusk Bow is the only legacy item in the game that is just out in the open like other weapons. It is not even in a chest.
Functionally, the DLC and Amiibo legacy items can be found via four forms: In the Depths, from Misko Side Quests (essentially cave spelunking), purchasing from Poe Collectors (kind of Depths adjacent), and in miscellaneous spots in Hyrule (which is the rarest way to find these items).
To help facilitate discussion, I'll list out which items belong to which of these categories.
The Depths
These are armor sets that can be found throughout the Depths. Some must be acquired after beating a coliseum, while others are places throughout various locations in the world below.
- The Hero Tunic Set
- The Time Tunic Set
- The Wind Tunic Set
- The Twilight Tunic Set
- The Sky Tunic Set
- Midna's Helmet
- Zant's Helmet
- Sheik's Mask
- Ravio Hood
- Majora's Mask
- Sea-Breeze Boomerang
- Biggeron's Sword
- Sword of the Hero
- Sea-Breeze Shield
- The Dark Tunic Set
Opinion: The fact that the Tunic of the Wild and the Tunic of Memories are items found in the Depths along side items like Zant's Helmet really gives me "we added this for fun, not lore" category. Functionally, there is no lore reason for the Tunic of the Wild to even be down in the Depths. It is supposed to be BotW Link's outfit, given to him by the ancient Sheikah Monks.
Misko Side Quests
Misko is a bandit with an eye for fashion. He has apparently... "collected" outfits from all over the world, and and has hidden them across Hyrule for the lucky winners to find. Unlike the Depth's armor, these armors aren't just sitting around. They have real quests attached.
- The Awakening Tunic Set
- Fierce Deity Set
- Fierce Deity Sword (reward for getting the full set)
- Phantom Set
- Tingle Set
The Unique Ways
Finally, we have the last few items, which are not found via Misko quests or the Depths. These items instead are found in various ways across the game, some more involved than others
- The Phantom Ganon Set - This set is found by doing all three of the mazes. Apparently, it was enshrined there since the "days of old", and is described as an otherworldly evil.
- Island Lobster Shirt - Found in a chest in the waters below the pirate ship at Lurelin Village. From what I can tell, there is no lore attached to this shirt, it's just there.
- Dusk Claymore - Found in ruins after a lengthy side quest. It used to exist at the Sage Temple, before it was moved to Thyphlo long, long ago. Thyphlo ruins, despite their Zonai appearance, is actually a site build to commemorate Rauru and the Six Sages, and was built "more recently" (comparatively to the older Zonai ruins).
- Dusk Bow - Can be found at the very top of Hyrule Castle, in a part of the roof where it is broken. The only legacy weapon in the game that is not in a chest and can respawn, without the need to repurchase it.
- White Sword of the Sky - A gift to Link after he helps the Mother Goddess Statue at the Forgotten Temple, at the behest of the three Spring Goddess Statues.
That still doesn't really answer all the questions. Phantom Ganon's gear should also technically be impossible, as well as the White Sword of the Sky. And the Island Lobster Shirt existing with the Dusk weapons suggests two different timelines at the same time.
I don't really have a stance on these legacy items as of now. But I was curious what others thought. I have seen some people wave them all away as merely fun references, but some suggest that the fact they exist in the game natively at all suggests they are all canon.
What do you think? I would love to hear the community's thoughts, so we can improve our understanding of the lore of this world.
2023.05.30 21:34 RamboBambiBambo [TotK] Anyone else wonder what we might see as DLC equipment options?
So LoZ: TotK is going to have DLC. And going off of how DLC was in BotW, I cannot help but wonder what new equipment items we may see added to the roster for TotK's gear in the form of new weapons, bows, shields, and armor that may be bundled into any of the DLC packs coming around.
So I cannot help but theorize and predict that we may get any of the following -
ARMOR SETS -
WEAPONS -
BOWS -
SHIELDS -
And there you have it.
Just figured I would share my expectations of what we could see as DLC legacy items coming to Tears of the Kingdom in the coming year and how I would have some of them provide a bonus effect.
Thoughts anyone?
submitted by RamboBambiBambo to zelda [link] [comments]
So I cannot help but theorize and predict that we may get any of the following -
ARMOR SETS -
- Skyloftian Attire - Considering the fact we may get a DLC that adds more islands, I think it would be fitting to allow for Link to acquire clothing and a new hairstyle option as rewards; replicating Link's appearance from the opening act of Skyward Sword.
- Ordonian Shepherd - Sticking to the idea of having Link in TotK replicate the look of what we once wore in the opening act of a previous game, I think it would be fitting to allow us to acquire the outfit worn by Link in the opening act of Twilight Princess. Especially since it will expose Link's right arm that is now adorned with Zonai accessories.
- Zora Armor of Twilight - As an alternative outfit choice for the Zora Armor you can already acquire in-game, the Zora Armor of Twilight Princess would be an addition to simply allow you to replicate Link's appearance in Twilight Princess.
- Magic Armor - The Magic Armor from Twilight Princess could be added to the game. Though most likely it would simply be an alternative outfit style while replicating the same effect as the Mystic Armor, I personally believe it could be recontextualized as a suit of armor worn by King Rhoam Bosphoramus Hyrule during his younger years as a mere prince of the realm before his time to reign.
- Hero's Shade Armor - Continuing the trend of Twilight Princess inspired attire, I believe that the armor worn by the late Hero of Time in his final days would make for a nice set of armor to replicate the effects of the Barbarian Armor set. To make it interesting, I would personally add a visual flair to the armor by having Link's flesh look normal by day; but when night falls, his exposed flesh becomes semi-translucent, revealling his bones beneath with a single eye-socket glowing red to fully pull off the Hero's Shade look.
- Dark Mage's Robes - Moving to more toon aesthetics, I believe that it would be interesting to provide Link with the ability to mimic Vaati's appearance from The Minish Cap. What with BotW/TotK being more cell-shaded, it would be rather fitting to allow for us to see Vaati's likeness in more graphical detail. Plus as a bonus I think it should receive the gloom-resistant effect.
- Royal Engineer Uniform - Similarly, I think it would be fitting to have the outfit worn by Link in Spirit Tracks to be available in TotK as a collectible set. If I were to apply a bonus attribute to the set, it would be Energy Cell Efficiency; thus wearing the full set would allow you to have a 20% less drain on your Energy Cells when using Zonai Devices.
- Cap/Tunic/Trousers of the Warrior - Honestly, I was surprised that this set was not available in the base game; seeing as the outfit was available in Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity. But I can totally see Nintendo adding it in as a new collectible set to acquire while scrounging through The Depths.
- Bunny Hood - Tired of eating Rushroom Skewers and Speed Potions? Well, wearing the Bunny Hood will provide you with the same effect; allowing you to jog and run faster; though climbing speed is still normal.
- Hawkeye Mask - Some Bows, such as the Gerudo Bow, will zoom in whenever you take aim. If Nintendo were to add this mask as a DLC item, this would be how to replicate that effect for all bows in the game.
- Pegasus Boots - No, I don't think a speed boost would be proper to apply to these boots. Instead, I would have it be so that wearing the boots has stamina drain reduced by 20% while sprinting. Combined with the Bunny Hood, you can most certainly travel fast and far on foot.
- Iron Boots - Tired of being knocked around by heavy attacks from large enemies? Don't want Horriblins with bouncy mushroom sticks to make you launch across the cave? Well, find and equip the iron boots to make you move around a little slower but also never be launched by a heavy attack. Just be ready to take the hit.
- Travelling Swordsman - Though most Super Smash Bros Ultimate players don't like the Mii BrawleGunneSwordfighter characters, we can all admit that the default outfit for Mii Swordfighter is actually pretty well made. I could easily see Nintendo add it in as a reference set of shirt and pants; to be paired with the Travelers weapons arrangement.
WEAPONS -
- Wooden Sword - I think as a fun silent addition, Nintendo should add the Wooden Sword from Twilight Princess as an item. An uncommon drop from the Meantree enemies, so instead of them dropping an effectively useless tree-branch; they drop a more sturdy wooden sword to possibly make use of.
- Ordon Sword - The sword that the Hero of Twilight wielded during his adventure's earliest miles. A fitting piece to help fully replicate the look of Link from the Twilight Princess game when paired with the Cap, Tunic, and Trousers of Twilight.
- Sword of the Knave - At the start of Hyrule Warriors, Link was but a young Knave on his way to be a proper Knight. So it would be fitting to rename the Knight's Sword as such. However in the hands of someone like Link, this blade's power would surpass the likes of a Knight's Sword from BotW/TotK.
- Blade of the Shade - Should the Hero's Shade armor items be added to the game, it would only be fitting to include the Hero's Shade sword to help complete the look.
- Gilded Sword - The fully upgraded Kokiri Sword version 4.0! I think it would be fitting to have to acquire this sword in the Lost Woods, implying that the Hero of Time had returned the blade to the Lost Woods after his adventure in Termina.
- Great Fairy's Claymore - Perhaps they might add in a quest for Link to perform for each of the Great Fairies, allowing you to be rewarded with the gift of the Great Fairy's Claymore? That or simply make us find it in the overworld.
- Kholint Sword - Seeing as Toy Link has been given some representation as a headpiece you can acquire, I think it would only be fitting to allow for you to obtain the ultimate sword from Link's Awakening as an item you can acquire.
- Blade of Hurricanes - The sword that the Hero of Winds used when not in possession of the Master Sword. What makes this blade unique? Well, I propose that if you were to charge up your spin-attack to the third level of power buildup; Link will then unleash a Hurricane Spin Attack! Great for when you are surrounded by enemies or just farming for items that you can harvest by cutting down grass in a field.
- White Sword - Though it has rarely made an appearance, I believe the addition of the White Sword would be fitting. Fun fact, if you attach a star fragment to an item; you will launch beams of light into the distance. So if the White Sword were to be added to the game, I think it would be best to have it simply not be a weapon you can throw away. Make it akin to the Master Sword where attempting to toss the sword will instead send out a beam. However in the White Sword's case, it will cast a triad of light sources into the distance. A good tool for when in the depths and trying to conserve Brightbulbs.
- Magical Sword - Like the White Sword, this sword should also be unable to be thrown. Instead, attempting to throw the sword should unleash an elemental attack. But with the caveat of it being a random type of element. Are we casting flames, lightning, or ice against our opponent?
- Phantom Sword - I think the addition of the Phantom Sword would be a nice addition to the game's roster of legendary weapons. But how to make it unique? Well it could be complicated to code, but I think that if Link were to try to toss the blade while at full health; it should launch a beam of light upon the enemy. Whatever enemy gets hit by the beam of light will replicate the Time Stop + ability from BotW so the enemy is frozen for a free hit or two.
- Lokomo Sword - The addition of the Lokomo Sword would make for a nice item to include in the weapons roster. But how to make it unique? Simple. If Link attempts to use the Fusion ability with this weapon and attempts to attach Zonai Charges or even Large Zonai Charges, the blade will be mended of damage. Thus the sword can be healed without the need of an Octorok.
- Four Sword - Now I know what you are thinking and NO. This sword will not make three other companion Links running around as AI companions. We already have our Vows with the Sages providing that. Instead I offer an alternative. Imagine a visual effect like what happens in Super Mario Galaxy when you pick up an Invincibility power up. Whenever you wield the Four Sword, you will instead have three shadows following very closely behind you; one red, one blue, and one purple. Whenever you swing the Four Sword, these copies follow your every motion and if the hit lands; they deal the same damage as you. So while the Four Sword would be 15 damage power, it is actually most likely 15x4 if all three of these copy Link's follow your motion and land their hits; meaning that if all 4 hits land you just dealt 60 damage with one button press. However, the enemy could fall out of range due to the slight knockback that weapons feature in the game; so you may end up missing your copy-cat hits. At least this is how I would have the Four Sword act in the game.
- Dominion Mace - Though this is more of a joke item. I figure that after eons, the Dominion Rod of Twilight Princess would be both depleted of power and all history regarding the relic has been lost to those who do not peruse the Royal Library. As a result, Link finds the Dominion Rod and deems it to be a well-made mace.
- Flameblade
- Flamespear
- Great Flameblade
- Frostblade
- Frostspear
- Great Frostblade
- Thunderblade
- Thunderspear
- Great Thunderblade
- So yes, these weapons were sadly removed as BotW transitioned into TotK. And yes, you can replicate them by way of elemental Lizalfos Horns. HOWEVER; I think there is a missed opporitunity here. Zonai attachments to Zoanite weapons receive a bonus to their attack power. I believe that these elemental weapons should return to the game and if affixed with the proper attachment (Flameblade receives Flame Lizalfos Horn attachment for example), it should have a similar enhancing effect to both the weapon's damage and elemental output.
BOWS -
- Sacred Bow - The final upgraded version of Skyward Sword Link's bow. I suspect that we will most likely see a DLC give us more islands in the sky to explore. So it would be fitting to be able to find this bow nested in a chest up high in the skies above Hyrule.
- Legendary Crossbow - It would be rather unique to have the ability to use Link's Crossbow from Link's Crossbow Training as a weapon. I personally would have it replicate the Duplex Bow to shoot two arrows for the price of one.
SHIELDS -
- Deku Shield - If any shield should be added in a DLC as a quest reward, it should be the iconic Kokiri Shield from Ocarina of Time. Simply have it be a reward given by the Deku Tree for Link running an errand for him, a humble and sentimental reward.
- Ordon Shield - To go with the Ordon Sword, I think that the Ordon Shield should also be added to the game as a legacy item; thus allowing us to replicate the Hero of Twilight look even further.
- Mirror Shield - Though you can replicate this shield's effect thanks to the Zonai Mirrors you can fuse with a shield, it would be nice to have a Mirror Shield from a previous game as a legacy item. Question is, which one? There are like 6 designs we have had in the history of Zelda.
- Engineer's Shield - The shield that Link used in Spirit Tracks at the start of his adventure.
- Shield of Antiquity - Simply put, have it be an alternative version of the Hero's Shield that used to be dropped from the Wind Waker Amiibo. I personally would have it be an item that could be found in a whirlpool cave in the waters of the Necluda Sea added in with a DLC.
- Wooden Shield / Banded Shield / Braced Shield - I honestly find it strange that these weren't added as an homage to Skyward Sword as shields that could be found both in the islands in the sky and as items scattered around fallen island debris. If any DLC shields should be added, I think the Skyward Sword wooden shields would make for a nice addition to the roster; especially since they would level up alongside the player in the save file. So as they progress further in the game, they can find Banded and finally the Braced Shields.
- Iron Shield / Reinforced Shield / Fortified Shield - Ditto but with the Skyward Sword Iron Shield lineup of upgrades. Stronger than the Wooden Shield counterpart but susceptible to lightning.
- Sacred Shield / Divine Shield / Goddess Shield - Ditto. However, unlike with this lineup of shields from Skyward Sword where they mended themselves over time; I think that it would be fitting to have these shields only have a single property from that game carry over to TotK. When the shield is raised against Stal enemies (with the exception of the Stalnox), it will make them cower away from you and keep their distance. An especially useful item to have on hand when roaming around at night or exploring the depths wanting to be undisturbed by the annoying bones.
- Shade's Guard - Again, if Nintendo were to add in the Hero's Shade armor set; it would only be fitting to add in the shield used by the Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess as a bonus to complete the look.
- Shield of the Knave - The default shield from Hyrule Warriors would make for a descent addition. Especially if players are wanting to replicate the Hyrule Warriors' depiction of Link if Nintendo were to add in the outfit as well.
- Shield of Light - If Nintendo were to add in the White Sword as depicted in Hryule Warriors, I think it would be fitting to have it also be included the shield that Link used when making use of that sword. Have the bonus attribute that whenever you raise the shield, it shines light upon whatever is in front of you; allowing you to illuminate the darkness of the Depths and some caves with ease.
- Shield of Magic - Ditto. However, I believe that this shield should have the bonus effect of actually being able to heal itself. Should the player successfully deflect a magic attack with this shield equipped, it will mend some of its damaged health-pool by 10%; allowing you to fix the shield by simply fighting an elemental enemy.
And there you have it.
Just figured I would share my expectations of what we could see as DLC legacy items coming to Tears of the Kingdom in the coming year and how I would have some of them provide a bonus effect.
Thoughts anyone?
2023.05.30 18:48 Way_Moby The Lore of King Deshret: A Prose Summary
For some time now, I've been obsessed with the lore of King Deshret, Nabu Malikata, and Rukkhadevata. After pouring over artifact descriptions, I thought it might be a good idea to compile all of that lore into a prose summary (with citations!) so that folks can come to appreciate the richness of all the desert's story. And so, I present you with "The Lore of King Deshret: A Prose Summary"!
Note that I've tried to privilege artifact, material, etc. descriptions over others sources, as their flavor text seems to be the most "objective." Also, in certain places I have stitched together the lore with some of my own assumptions, but I tried to keep these to a minimum so that this wouldn't just become a headcanon-fest. Either way, let me know if you have any thoughts and/or suggestions for things that I should add.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the Beginning
Long ago, the region now known as the Great Red Sand was a verdant land under the dominion of Apep, the Dendro dragon. But during the war against the Second Who Came, when dragons like Nibelung and Apep used the power of the Abyss to fight the Heavenly Principles, it is said that the Primordial One "sent down the divine nails to mend the land" (Amethyst Crown). One of these pillars was dropped on what would become Sumeru (Shadow of the Sand King; What Shape Does the Self Hold). And while this action prevented Apep from absorbing a critical mass of forbidden knowledge (What Shape Does the Self Hold), its ecological impact was immense: "The grass turned into sand" (The Realm of Beginnins), "burying tree and meadow" (Shadow of the Sand King). Apep's once-lush realm was reduced to nothing but a vast, blistering desert. After this catastrophe, "the new masters of Teyvat … stepped into [the] land" (The Realm of Beginnings); these were the humans, and those who lived in the desert organized themselves into various tribes (The Sunken Years).
It was around this time that the one known as King Deshret rose to power and "shaped the land, creating oases and flowing springs" (The Sunken Years). Of Deshret's origins, not much is known. According to legends, he was "a son of the sky," and "whenever he looked up to the sky and recalled the boundless paradise high above, and the merciless reign of thousands of years past, [he] could not help but lower his noble head and sigh helplessly" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar). Deshret—who was also known as "Amun" (What Shape Does the Self Hold), "Al-Ahmar" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar), and the "Scarlet King" (Secret of the Scorching Desert)—was often epithetized as "the king of warriors, gardeners, and intellectuals" (Candace, Companion Dialogue) and it is said that "his people chose to cover their eyes as they dared not look upon him" because his visage "was beyond that of the sun" (Rich Red Brocade). It is unclear what Deshret looked like, but because the statues and effigies that dot the desert landscape are said to have been erected in his image (Primal Obelisk, Mausoleum of King Deshret, East; The Temple Where Sand Flows Like Tears), it is possible that he was an avian-headed humanoid. On murals, he was often depicted simply as a great ten-pointed star inlaid with a technicolor iris; this was the legendary "Eye of Deshret" (An Introduction to Indoor Archaeology).
Prior to his ascendancy, Deshret first approached Apep, the defeated Dendro dragon, and sought her permission to establish a kingdom in what used to be her realm. Although Apep "did not think much" of Deshret, she agreed to his proposal under one condition: "That after his death, all the knowledge he came to accumulate would belong to [her]" (What Shape Does the Self Hold ) Deshret agreed to this proposal and set about building his kingdom, which he sought to make "a paradise for all living beings and a place where wisdom gathered." (Viewpoint: The Barren Land Where Sand Dances).
And as Deshret's kingdom grew, so too did his power: The legends claim that at the apex of his kingdom, Deshret "had no enemies, for all who paid him no homage would be destroyed by [his] servants … and thus be rendered down to naught but a handful of sand" (Delving Deeper: Sekhem Hall ). In fact, so powerful was Deshret's kingdom that Celestia itself eventually offered him a gnosis—the metaphysical index of true power that transmuted its wielder into an archon—but Deshret is said to have "reject[ed] the gift granted by the divine throne" (Wilting Feast).
Deshret and Nabu Malikata: A Fateful Pairing
At some point, Deshret came across "a spirit created at the beginning [who was] the shimmering light that flows from the eyes of the creator" (Amethyst Crown; Scroll of Streaming Song, Vol. I). This magnificent being was Nabu Malikata, better known as the Goddess of Flowers. A benevolent deity and the mother of the Jinn, it I said that:
Because of this most unjust punishment, the Goddess of Flowers secretly harbored a burning desire to "transcend the absurd shackles that governed this world" by subverting the power of Celestia (Wilting Feast). But Nabu Malikata was not driven simply by revenge. Indeed, she loved humanity and simply wanted them to seize their destiny and realize the "truth": that "these so-called gods [have] been superfluous to [humans] since the beginning?" (Wilting Feast).
King Deshret "reveled in [Nabu Malikata's] immense charm and grace" (Oasis Garden's Truth) and proposed an alliance. And so "the Mistress of Flowers and Oases joined hands with the Lord of Deserts and built Ay-Khanoum, the "City of Amphitheaters," which meant the "City of the Moon Maiden" in the mysterious language of the Jinn (Oasis Garden's Mourning). During this time, it is said that Jinn "lived in a carefree palace, singing with nightingales and talking with roses. It was a beautiful time ... and even the tasteless spring water was intoxicating" (The Shepherd and the Magic Bottle).
The Golden Age of the Oathbound Friends
Sometime later, Nabu Malikata heard rumors of a most wise deity, "the owner of yesterday and the master of tomorrow morning" who went by the name "Rukkhadevata." After meeting one another, the Goddess of Flowers and Rukkhadevata bonded over their love of wisdom and developed a friendship—a friendship that eventually grew to include King Deshret (Scroll of Streaming Song, Vol. I).
Around the time that this friendship was blossoming, the centuries-long era of violence now known as the "Archon War" began, wherein myriad gods battled one another for a chance to receive a gnosis. Given his immense power, Deshret could have easily disposed of both Nabu Malikata and Rukkhadevata, thereby consolidating control over all of Sumeru. But instead, he did the unthinkable: He offered his throne to the goddesses and proposed that the three of them rule over Sumeru together (Amethyst Crown). Nabu Malikata and Rukkhadevata agreed to this offer, and thus did the three become "oathbound friends" (Honeyed Final Feast).
The trio of god-kings consequently divided the responsibilities of ruling amongst themselves: "the banquet belonged to the mistress of flowers and moonlit nights, authority was in the hands of the desert king, and life was the domain of the keeper of plants" (Honeyed Final Feast). Under this tripartite system, "peace and ease reigned," and there was no "division or misfortune" (Honeyed Final Feast). Thus did Sumeru thrive (Scroll of Streaming Song, Vol. III).
Nabu Malikata's Sacrifice
Given their shared disdain for Celestia and their desire to see "humanity … become the king of kings," Deshret often urged the Goddess of Flowers to join him in his rebellion against the Heavenly Principles. At first, Nabu Malikata refused, believing that Deshret's goal was akin to "chain[ing] the winds" (Wilting Feast). Deshret, however, continued to insist, and so Nabu Malikata used her heaven-given powers to show her friend that his future would be "ruinous and bleak" were he to continue down the path he was taking (Wilting Feast). But still, "the king refused to yield an inch" (Wilting Feast).
Never before had the Goddess of Flowers met such a resolve, and soon, in Deshret's "words and aspirations," she "saw the possibility to transcend the absurd shackles that governed this world" (Wilting Feast). And so Nabu Malikata "capitulated to her friend's folly" (Wilting Feast), telling him:
King Deshret thence sought out the primeval celestial nail that had long ago turned Sumeru to sand, and—with the assistance of the Jinn—he used its power to create an elaborate cenotaph to commemorate the Goddess of Flowers (Defender of the Enchanting Dream; A Moment Congealed). This memorial—an "ever-youthful dreamland" of "undisturbed water" and "perpetual dusk"—was held in stasis so that it would "not be seized by autumn's arms," nor would the "circles of time" be able to "subject its newborn spring-joy to the curse of years" (Viewpoint: The Paradise of Eternal Peace). And to ensure that nothing bad would happen to his fallen friend's memorial, Deshret granted the mighty Ferigees governance over the oasis (Defender of the Enchanting Dream). In addition to protecting the tomb, the legends say that Ferigees also "used her powers to keep the springs ever-flowing, and so she spread greenery across the desert like stars in the sky, providing sanctuary to folk who had lost their homes" (Defender of the Enchanting Dream). Because of this, Goddess of Flowers's memorial came to be known simply as the "Eternal Oasis" (A Moment Congealed).
Despite the love that Rukkhadevata had for the Goddess of Flowers, it is said that the latter's ideals "broke [the former's] heart" (Dune-Entombed Fecundity: Part III) In fact, Nabu Malikata's death was so impactful that Rukkhadevata decided to "cut ties with the sea of sand," choosing to instead create for herself a forest kingdom from whence she could "take up the path of defending life" (Feast of Boundless Joy). After leaving the desert, Rukkhadevata severed relations with King Deshret (Vibrant Pinion), but while the two were no longer "inseparable friends" (Dreaming Steelbloom), it seems that their past prevented them from ever truly being enemies (Secret of the Scorching Desert).
Deshret and the Vassal States
Following Rukkhadevata's departure from the desert, Deshret was left to rule by himself. But though he had just lost two of his closest friends, his power was still immense: "In [this] era … [Deshret's] power descended upon every inch of the land like the scorching sun. … No one was neglected, nor was anyone discontented. That was a forgotten golden era" (Olden Days of Scorching Might). It is likely that much of Deshret's power was due to his newfound alliance with the Jinn: Soon after the death of their creator, they had turned to the king and promised to serve him if he swore "to find [their] eternal companion" (The Temple Where Sand Flows Like Tears). Deshret agreed and thus the Jinn "became his servants, engaging in noble deeds of creation and exploration," and to house the Jinn, Deshret created myriad magic bottles of silver, stamped with his mark, in which these spirits could live in repose (The Shepherd and the Magic Bottle).
Deshret also made a pact with his human subjects at this time: "Those who possessed hearts of iron and were untainted by the allure of corruption," he proclaimed, "could serve as a vassal-king and guide the people, like a shepherd tending to a flock" (The First Days of the City of Kings). Soon after this proclamation was made, a lowly shepherd named Ormazd met and fell in love with the Jinn Liloupar, the sister of Ferigees. With her help, Ormazd managed to unite the scattered tribes of the desert (Legacy of the Desert High-Born), and thus Ormazd was crowned as Deshret's "vassal king" (The First Days of the City of Kings). Ormazd made the city of Gurabad his capital, and according to the legends:
The Search for Forbidden Knowledge
Why, a reader might ask, did Deshret defer to mortals the authority that he himself had long wielded? It seems that at this time, Deshret secluded himself, "us[ing] a hundred years and a hundred years further to build a huge maze for his kingdom, before trapping himself deep within it in search of [the] forbidden knowledge" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar) that Nabu Malikata had sacrificed herself for him to get.
The "taboo knowledge" that Deshret sought in particular was information about how he could "create a dream paradise" (Primal Construct: Prospector) that was "free of worry, schemes, and slavery" (Remnant Glow of Scorching Might). To attain this end, Deshret surveyed the world around him, identifying elements that he felt needed to be eliminated. These things he enumerated as such:
But while Deshret seems to have been outwardly motivated to seek Abyssal knowledge so as to enact his "Golden Slumber" and help thus "humanity become the lord of lords and the god of gods" (Honeyed Final Feast), he may very well have had another motive: to revive his lost love, Nabu Malikata. In the Lay of Al-Ahmar, it is said that the Crocodile King, the "commander of commanders," recommended that the king "forget the delusions of the Void" and instead seek "only resurrection and life eternal"—a recommendation, we are told, to which the king ultimately assented (The Lay of Al-Ahmar). While one could write this off as a dramatic distortion of what actually happened, it might very well be a highly poetic recollection of what actually happened: After all, we know that Deshret, while hard at work seeking forbidden knowledge, admitted to himself:
The Fall of King Deshret
It was while "gaz[ing] upon the wisdom of the depths, and inclin[ing] his ear to honeyed whispers" (Dreaming Steelbloom) that Deshret came across forbidden knowledge from "the very bottom of the Abyss" that was beyond comprehension (Where the Boat of Consciousness Lies). This knowledge was utterly devastating, and it swiftly toppled Deshret's mighty kingdom. Thanks to the record of Kasala, one of Deshret's priests who lived through this calamity, we have a vivid description of this horrific event:
While Rukkhadevata's temples had managed to slow the spread of forbidden knowledge, they had not managed to fully eradicate the threat. Rukkhadevata and King Deshret thus joined forces and together fought against the forbidden knowledge. This battle was perhaps the most strenuous the two had ever waged: Rukkhadevata is said to have "exhausted her strength" in the fight, resulting in her "form [becoming] that of a small child," and King Deshret, realizing that the forbidden knowledge he had brought into the world could not be eliminated without a great loss, "chose to sacrifice himself" in order to save the day (Secret of the Scorching Desert). It is unclear what exactly this sacrifice entailed, but it is likely that Deshret used the power of his consciousness to blast the forbidden knowledge into oblivion (Secret of the Scorching Desert); at this time, Deshret also seems to have activated his Golden Slumber project by teaching his people the following incantation, which, when spoken in earnest, merged their "minds … into one" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar):
Post-Mortem
Per the mythos of the desert folks, after Deshret sacrificed himself, his physical body "gradually decayed on his throne while worms feasted on it" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar). Interestingly, this could be a fanciful retelling of a historical event: According to the dragon Apep, after Deshret's kingdom collapse, she "swallowed him whole" to attain the knowledge he had accumulated, per the agreement that they had struck thousands of years prior. Unfortunately, Deshret's body had been poisoned by forbidden knowledge, which resulted in Apep losing her mind (What Shape Does the Self Hold).
Having lost their second master, the Jinn were heartbroken, and according to myth, they constructed the massive doorway that led into Deshret's mausoleum to memorialize the king (The Shepherd and the Magic Bottle). In the mausoleum itself was placed a false sarcophagus—a "golden husk"—to mark the structure as the ceremonial resting place of Deshret. Additionally, there are whispers that, to this day, Deshret's "intelligence lies elsewhere" (Delving Deeper: The Mausoleum of King Deshret), but it is unclear what this phrase means…
Decimated by the effects of forbidden knowledge and now bereft of a god-king, the inhabitants of Deshret's kingdom splintered into various desert states and began to war against one another for supremacy:
submitted by Way_Moby to Genshin_Lore [link] [comments]
Note that I've tried to privilege artifact, material, etc. descriptions over others sources, as their flavor text seems to be the most "objective." Also, in certain places I have stitched together the lore with some of my own assumptions, but I tried to keep these to a minimum so that this wouldn't just become a headcanon-fest. Either way, let me know if you have any thoughts and/or suggestions for things that I should add.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the Beginning
Long ago, the region now known as the Great Red Sand was a verdant land under the dominion of Apep, the Dendro dragon. But during the war against the Second Who Came, when dragons like Nibelung and Apep used the power of the Abyss to fight the Heavenly Principles, it is said that the Primordial One "sent down the divine nails to mend the land" (Amethyst Crown). One of these pillars was dropped on what would become Sumeru (Shadow of the Sand King; What Shape Does the Self Hold). And while this action prevented Apep from absorbing a critical mass of forbidden knowledge (What Shape Does the Self Hold), its ecological impact was immense: "The grass turned into sand" (The Realm of Beginnins), "burying tree and meadow" (Shadow of the Sand King). Apep's once-lush realm was reduced to nothing but a vast, blistering desert. After this catastrophe, "the new masters of Teyvat … stepped into [the] land" (The Realm of Beginnings); these were the humans, and those who lived in the desert organized themselves into various tribes (The Sunken Years).
It was around this time that the one known as King Deshret rose to power and "shaped the land, creating oases and flowing springs" (The Sunken Years). Of Deshret's origins, not much is known. According to legends, he was "a son of the sky," and "whenever he looked up to the sky and recalled the boundless paradise high above, and the merciless reign of thousands of years past, [he] could not help but lower his noble head and sigh helplessly" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar). Deshret—who was also known as "Amun" (What Shape Does the Self Hold), "Al-Ahmar" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar), and the "Scarlet King" (Secret of the Scorching Desert)—was often epithetized as "the king of warriors, gardeners, and intellectuals" (Candace, Companion Dialogue) and it is said that "his people chose to cover their eyes as they dared not look upon him" because his visage "was beyond that of the sun" (Rich Red Brocade). It is unclear what Deshret looked like, but because the statues and effigies that dot the desert landscape are said to have been erected in his image (Primal Obelisk, Mausoleum of King Deshret, East; The Temple Where Sand Flows Like Tears), it is possible that he was an avian-headed humanoid. On murals, he was often depicted simply as a great ten-pointed star inlaid with a technicolor iris; this was the legendary "Eye of Deshret" (An Introduction to Indoor Archaeology).
Prior to his ascendancy, Deshret first approached Apep, the defeated Dendro dragon, and sought her permission to establish a kingdom in what used to be her realm. Although Apep "did not think much" of Deshret, she agreed to his proposal under one condition: "That after his death, all the knowledge he came to accumulate would belong to [her]" (What Shape Does the Self Hold ) Deshret agreed to this proposal and set about building his kingdom, which he sought to make "a paradise for all living beings and a place where wisdom gathered." (Viewpoint: The Barren Land Where Sand Dances).
And as Deshret's kingdom grew, so too did his power: The legends claim that at the apex of his kingdom, Deshret "had no enemies, for all who paid him no homage would be destroyed by [his] servants … and thus be rendered down to naught but a handful of sand" (Delving Deeper: Sekhem Hall ). In fact, so powerful was Deshret's kingdom that Celestia itself eventually offered him a gnosis—the metaphysical index of true power that transmuted its wielder into an archon—but Deshret is said to have "reject[ed] the gift granted by the divine throne" (Wilting Feast).
Deshret and Nabu Malikata: A Fateful Pairing
At some point, Deshret came across "a spirit created at the beginning [who was] the shimmering light that flows from the eyes of the creator" (Amethyst Crown; Scroll of Streaming Song, Vol. I). This magnificent being was Nabu Malikata, better known as the Goddess of Flowers. A benevolent deity and the mother of the Jinn, it I said that:
… the Lord of Flowers was the Lord of Joy and Happiness. Freshwater sprang from her sleeves, and thus was the oasis of blossoming flowers born in the desert. Flowers and grasses followed in her footsteps, and gleaming moonlight cleared the way for her. In the bitter days when the sky turned its back on the ground, the Lord of Flowers extended her mercy to each and every one of the mortals, letting them regain their happiness and egos, allowing leisure and luxury to resume.But the Goddess of Flowers was not just a friendly sprite or a gregarious dryad. In truth, she was a member of that noble race known as the Seelies. Long ago, after the Primordial One had fashioned Teyvat for humans (Before Sun and Moon), Nabu Malikata had danced in heaven with the sisters of the moon (Tulaytullah’s Remembrance). But after the war with the Second, she and her kin "suffered the torment of exile" and were stripped of their "connection to heaven" and to their "powers of enlightenment" (Amethyst Crown ).
She bestowed dreams upon the exiled, the manic, and the foolish. In those dreams, they were presented with their dearest delights. Burdened by the brutality of reality, they were fascinated by the charm of the Lord of Flowers and captivated by her beauty and care. … Apart from wisdom and power, she also brought mercy and joy to her people."
—Oasis Garden's Reminiscence; Oasis Garden's Kindness; Oasis Garden's Truth
Because of this most unjust punishment, the Goddess of Flowers secretly harbored a burning desire to "transcend the absurd shackles that governed this world" by subverting the power of Celestia (Wilting Feast). But Nabu Malikata was not driven simply by revenge. Indeed, she loved humanity and simply wanted them to seize their destiny and realize the "truth": that "these so-called gods [have] been superfluous to [humans] since the beginning?" (Wilting Feast).
King Deshret "reveled in [Nabu Malikata's] immense charm and grace" (Oasis Garden's Truth) and proposed an alliance. And so "the Mistress of Flowers and Oases joined hands with the Lord of Deserts and built Ay-Khanoum, the "City of Amphitheaters," which meant the "City of the Moon Maiden" in the mysterious language of the Jinn (Oasis Garden's Mourning). During this time, it is said that Jinn "lived in a carefree palace, singing with nightingales and talking with roses. It was a beautiful time ... and even the tasteless spring water was intoxicating" (The Shepherd and the Magic Bottle).
The Golden Age of the Oathbound Friends
Sometime later, Nabu Malikata heard rumors of a most wise deity, "the owner of yesterday and the master of tomorrow morning" who went by the name "Rukkhadevata." After meeting one another, the Goddess of Flowers and Rukkhadevata bonded over their love of wisdom and developed a friendship—a friendship that eventually grew to include King Deshret (Scroll of Streaming Song, Vol. I).
Around the time that this friendship was blossoming, the centuries-long era of violence now known as the "Archon War" began, wherein myriad gods battled one another for a chance to receive a gnosis. Given his immense power, Deshret could have easily disposed of both Nabu Malikata and Rukkhadevata, thereby consolidating control over all of Sumeru. But instead, he did the unthinkable: He offered his throne to the goddesses and proposed that the three of them rule over Sumeru together (Amethyst Crown). Nabu Malikata and Rukkhadevata agreed to this offer, and thus did the three become "oathbound friends" (Honeyed Final Feast).
The trio of god-kings consequently divided the responsibilities of ruling amongst themselves: "the banquet belonged to the mistress of flowers and moonlit nights, authority was in the hands of the desert king, and life was the domain of the keeper of plants" (Honeyed Final Feast). Under this tripartite system, "peace and ease reigned," and there was no "division or misfortune" (Honeyed Final Feast). Thus did Sumeru thrive (Scroll of Streaming Song, Vol. III).
Nabu Malikata's Sacrifice
Given their shared disdain for Celestia and their desire to see "humanity … become the king of kings," Deshret often urged the Goddess of Flowers to join him in his rebellion against the Heavenly Principles. At first, Nabu Malikata refused, believing that Deshret's goal was akin to "chain[ing] the winds" (Wilting Feast). Deshret, however, continued to insist, and so Nabu Malikata used her heaven-given powers to show her friend that his future would be "ruinous and bleak" were he to continue down the path he was taking (Wilting Feast). But still, "the king refused to yield an inch" (Wilting Feast).
Never before had the Goddess of Flowers met such a resolve, and soon, in Deshret's "words and aspirations," she "saw the possibility to transcend the absurd shackles that governed this world" (Wilting Feast). And so Nabu Malikata "capitulated to her friend's folly" (Wilting Feast), telling him:
I shall keep your secrets on account of the feelings my heart holds for you and the Lord of Wisdom. I shall fashion you a bridge to allow you to slake your deepest wants. But you must fear not the crystalline sapphire nail... I will deliver you unto higher knowledge. But as I have warned, you are fated to lose much in this exchange... Nevertheless, hide my lesson in your heart. Remember the punishment that once was inflicted on the fallen envoys of heaven. Know this: If there is to be hope in this world, it will be found kindling within mortals most ordinary.Deshret and Nabu Malikata consequently performed an arcane ritual, wherein the latter "[used] her body as a conduit," allowing the former to access "all there was to know about the skies and the abyss" (Secret-Keeper's Magic Bottle ). The ritual's "dazzling radiance" consumed the Goddess of Flower's body and caused "sandstorms [to wreck] revelrous havoc across" Sumeru, "folding the skies with yellow sand, swallowing all in calamity" (Secret-Keeper's Magic Bottle).
—Secret-Keeper's Magic Bottle
King Deshret thence sought out the primeval celestial nail that had long ago turned Sumeru to sand, and—with the assistance of the Jinn—he used its power to create an elaborate cenotaph to commemorate the Goddess of Flowers (Defender of the Enchanting Dream; A Moment Congealed). This memorial—an "ever-youthful dreamland" of "undisturbed water" and "perpetual dusk"—was held in stasis so that it would "not be seized by autumn's arms," nor would the "circles of time" be able to "subject its newborn spring-joy to the curse of years" (Viewpoint: The Paradise of Eternal Peace). And to ensure that nothing bad would happen to his fallen friend's memorial, Deshret granted the mighty Ferigees governance over the oasis (Defender of the Enchanting Dream). In addition to protecting the tomb, the legends say that Ferigees also "used her powers to keep the springs ever-flowing, and so she spread greenery across the desert like stars in the sky, providing sanctuary to folk who had lost their homes" (Defender of the Enchanting Dream). Because of this, Goddess of Flowers's memorial came to be known simply as the "Eternal Oasis" (A Moment Congealed).
Despite the love that Rukkhadevata had for the Goddess of Flowers, it is said that the latter's ideals "broke [the former's] heart" (Dune-Entombed Fecundity: Part III) In fact, Nabu Malikata's death was so impactful that Rukkhadevata decided to "cut ties with the sea of sand," choosing to instead create for herself a forest kingdom from whence she could "take up the path of defending life" (Feast of Boundless Joy). After leaving the desert, Rukkhadevata severed relations with King Deshret (Vibrant Pinion), but while the two were no longer "inseparable friends" (Dreaming Steelbloom), it seems that their past prevented them from ever truly being enemies (Secret of the Scorching Desert).
Deshret and the Vassal States
Following Rukkhadevata's departure from the desert, Deshret was left to rule by himself. But though he had just lost two of his closest friends, his power was still immense: "In [this] era … [Deshret's] power descended upon every inch of the land like the scorching sun. … No one was neglected, nor was anyone discontented. That was a forgotten golden era" (Olden Days of Scorching Might). It is likely that much of Deshret's power was due to his newfound alliance with the Jinn: Soon after the death of their creator, they had turned to the king and promised to serve him if he swore "to find [their] eternal companion" (The Temple Where Sand Flows Like Tears). Deshret agreed and thus the Jinn "became his servants, engaging in noble deeds of creation and exploration," and to house the Jinn, Deshret created myriad magic bottles of silver, stamped with his mark, in which these spirits could live in repose (The Shepherd and the Magic Bottle).
Deshret also made a pact with his human subjects at this time: "Those who possessed hearts of iron and were untainted by the allure of corruption," he proclaimed, "could serve as a vassal-king and guide the people, like a shepherd tending to a flock" (The First Days of the City of Kings). Soon after this proclamation was made, a lowly shepherd named Ormazd met and fell in love with the Jinn Liloupar, the sister of Ferigees. With her help, Ormazd managed to unite the scattered tribes of the desert (Legacy of the Desert High-Born), and thus Ormazd was crowned as Deshret's "vassal king" (The First Days of the City of Kings). Ormazd made the city of Gurabad his capital, and according to the legends:
When Gurabad rose, the kingdoms of man joined many oases into one [and the people of the desert] obeyed the will of Ormazd alone. Ormazd took the Lord of the Desert as his lord-patron, constructing palaces and temples to facilitate his worship. Slaves were taken from the tribes, servitude was demanded from states, and sacrifices were required of the cities... The city thrived, and nobles and slaves alike lived in its shade.Unfortunately, Ormazd devolved into a petty tyrant, much to Liloupar's chagrin. She eventually concocted an elaborate revenge plan that resulted in Gurabad and its inhabitants being swallowed up by the earth (Memories of Gurabad). During this "eternal collapse," "sandstorms and demons ran riot. Nightingales sang till their voice grew raspy and their blood dried up. Roses withered and turned into tangles of thorns. Poets died of maltreatment, lovers were displaced, prosperity vanished" (The Shepherd and the Magic Bottle). In time, Deshret learned of Liloupar's actions, and, in a fury, he had her soul split into seven parts (Primal Obelisk, Safhe Shatranj).
—Legacy of the Desert High-Born
The Search for Forbidden Knowledge
Why, a reader might ask, did Deshret defer to mortals the authority that he himself had long wielded? It seems that at this time, Deshret secluded himself, "us[ing] a hundred years and a hundred years further to build a huge maze for his kingdom, before trapping himself deep within it in search of [the] forbidden knowledge" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar) that Nabu Malikata had sacrificed herself for him to get.
The "taboo knowledge" that Deshret sought in particular was information about how he could "create a dream paradise" (Primal Construct: Prospector) that was "free of worry, schemes, and slavery" (Remnant Glow of Scorching Might). To attain this end, Deshret surveyed the world around him, identifying elements that he felt needed to be eliminated. These things he enumerated as such:
The cycle of seven must be removed, because the secret narrative will be blocked.Fear and grief must be torn down, and so the barrier between life and death must be removed.After extirpating the world established by the Heavenly Principles, Deshret sought to "meld all thoughts into one, and let all calculations be unified" (Honeyed Final Feast). This goal was "elegant and precise" (Staff of the Scarlet Sands), but only because it represented nothing less than pure soteriological release from existence itself; in time, Deshret's objective came to be known as the "Golden Slumber" (Dreaming Steelbloom).
Remove the sun, the moons, and weight, for there should be no barriers between time and space.
Remove the original principles of rules, verdicts, and grace, so that she will no longer be afraid of the punishment that is laid on her kin.
Remove birds, beasts, fish, dragons, humans, and seven monk-kings, so that none shall steal wisdom. …
"None shall have to drink salt water in the King's realm, for everything in the new world shall be good."
—Staff of the Scarlet Sands
But while Deshret seems to have been outwardly motivated to seek Abyssal knowledge so as to enact his "Golden Slumber" and help thus "humanity become the lord of lords and the god of gods" (Honeyed Final Feast), he may very well have had another motive: to revive his lost love, Nabu Malikata. In the Lay of Al-Ahmar, it is said that the Crocodile King, the "commander of commanders," recommended that the king "forget the delusions of the Void" and instead seek "only resurrection and life eternal"—a recommendation, we are told, to which the king ultimately assented (The Lay of Al-Ahmar). While one could write this off as a dramatic distortion of what actually happened, it might very well be a highly poetic recollection of what actually happened: After all, we know that Deshret, while hard at work seeking forbidden knowledge, admitted to himself:
I understand now. This is what I have always wanted. That which I have always longed to find once more has never been a paradise for the many.This admission heavily suggests that what Deshret yearned for more than anything was a way to turn back time, resurrect his old friend from the dead, and live in the happiness of the past; in other words, he sought nothing more than to subvert "the law of universe that 'all who exist must one day perish'" (Sword of Descension).
All the parodies of the teachings and the seven wise monks, or that so-called pure world free of all sorrows, none of those things matter anymore ...
I can see the three of us debating in our paradise once more. We are so close.
—Staff of the Scarlet Sands
The Fall of King Deshret
It was while "gaz[ing] upon the wisdom of the depths, and inclin[ing] his ear to honeyed whispers" (Dreaming Steelbloom) that Deshret came across forbidden knowledge from "the very bottom of the Abyss" that was beyond comprehension (Where the Boat of Consciousness Lies). This knowledge was utterly devastating, and it swiftly toppled Deshret's mighty kingdom. Thanks to the record of Kasala, one of Deshret's priests who lived through this calamity, we have a vivid description of this horrific event:
A disaster caught us unaware: It was knowledge that did not belong to this world. [King Deshret] brought this forbidden knowledge into our world and it quickly spread like a plague. People’s minds were filled with crazed whispers; dark gray scales spread across their bodies; even the land was stripped of its vigor. Only a desperate, deathly silence remained.This was Deshret's darkest hour. But then, when all hope seemed lost, help arrived from east: It was Greater Lord Rukkhadevata of the forests! It seems that while she had cut ties with Deshret long ago due to a difference in opinion, she never ceased to care for him. When she arrived in the desert, the situation was dire, with the poison of forbidden knowledge threatening to swallow the kingdom whole. Rukkhadevata acted quickly: She summoned the desert priests and had them build seven great temples, into which she infused the "divine power of life" (Secret of the Scorching Desert). The energy that radiated from these temples slowed the advance of the forbidden knowledge's destruction, and during this reprieve, the desert kingdom's survivors took shelter in the city of Akhtamun, which in time became known as "Aaru Village" (Candace, Companion Dialogue; Secret of the Scorching Desert). But the battle was not over yet.
—Secret of the Scorching Desert
While Rukkhadevata's temples had managed to slow the spread of forbidden knowledge, they had not managed to fully eradicate the threat. Rukkhadevata and King Deshret thus joined forces and together fought against the forbidden knowledge. This battle was perhaps the most strenuous the two had ever waged: Rukkhadevata is said to have "exhausted her strength" in the fight, resulting in her "form [becoming] that of a small child," and King Deshret, realizing that the forbidden knowledge he had brought into the world could not be eliminated without a great loss, "chose to sacrifice himself" in order to save the day (Secret of the Scorching Desert). It is unclear what exactly this sacrifice entailed, but it is likely that Deshret used the power of his consciousness to blast the forbidden knowledge into oblivion (Secret of the Scorching Desert); at this time, Deshret also seems to have activated his Golden Slumber project by teaching his people the following incantation, which, when spoken in earnest, merged their "minds … into one" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar):
O stars high above the wastelandDeshret's sacrifice paid off, and the forbidden knowledge was eradicated. But it is also said that in the aftermath:
O nightingales weary from the day
It's time to take off the crown of roses
Cleanse yourself with wine made from grape
—Dreams Beneath the Searing Sand
... the desert quaked, and the walls of [Deshret's] royal city collapsed. One thousand and one pillars trembled before the gale, and the bulls and griffins that once stood proudly atop them, gazing down at the lifeless dunes, now reluctantly fell into its gilded embrace. Countless people, sage or fool, hero or coward—all of them vanished within the sandstorm that night.And thus was Deshret's kingdom "built and destroyed by his own hand" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar).
—The Lay of Al-Ahmar
Post-Mortem
Per the mythos of the desert folks, after Deshret sacrificed himself, his physical body "gradually decayed on his throne while worms feasted on it" (The Lay of Al-Ahmar). Interestingly, this could be a fanciful retelling of a historical event: According to the dragon Apep, after Deshret's kingdom collapse, she "swallowed him whole" to attain the knowledge he had accumulated, per the agreement that they had struck thousands of years prior. Unfortunately, Deshret's body had been poisoned by forbidden knowledge, which resulted in Apep losing her mind (What Shape Does the Self Hold).
Having lost their second master, the Jinn were heartbroken, and according to myth, they constructed the massive doorway that led into Deshret's mausoleum to memorialize the king (The Shepherd and the Magic Bottle). In the mausoleum itself was placed a false sarcophagus—a "golden husk"—to mark the structure as the ceremonial resting place of Deshret. Additionally, there are whispers that, to this day, Deshret's "intelligence lies elsewhere" (Delving Deeper: The Mausoleum of King Deshret), but it is unclear what this phrase means…
Decimated by the effects of forbidden knowledge and now bereft of a god-king, the inhabitants of Deshret's kingdom splintered into various desert states and began to war against one another for supremacy:
Many tiny tyrants would marshal refugees fleeing the cataclysm, and they would build temples, palaces, and high walls where once stood ancient ruins. The ruined cities would be devastated each after the next, and despots of all stripes boasting of power and wealth for a time would rise and fall all too quickly.Seven of these kingdoms sprung up around the temples that Rukkhadevata and the desert priests had erected years prior (Secret of the Scorching Desert; note that these temples would later be misattributed to Shah Ramshahr, per Primal Obelisk, Mausoleum of King Deshret, East, Underground). The names of only a few of these cities are known—i.e., Tulaytullah, Saleh, Ay-Khanoum (Primal Obelisk, Mausoleum of King Deshret, East, Underground)—but in the end, the "ears of decay" would ground them all "into sand" (Key of Khaj-Nisut). Those few who were left eventually became known as the "Eremites."
—Lamp of the Lost
2023.05.30 11:36 Crafty-Butterfly-449 [SPOILER ALERT]Zelda tears of the kingdom story is incoherent
Hello everyone, I wanted to share with you my thoughts about the story in tears of the kingdom.
SPOILER ALERT !!!!
submitted by Crafty-Butterfly-449 to ZeldaTearsOfKingdom [link] [comments]
SPOILER ALERT !!!!
- Tears Paradox : So we all know from Oot there is 7 sages with medallions In TotK, initially there was 7 secret stones: Rauru, Sonia (then Ganondorf), Mineru, Zora, Goron, Gerudo and Rito. After Zelda got Rauru’s tear, she goes back to the past and she has the tear with her which implies there’s now 8 secret stones. In this case, where is Rauru’s tear? Was it the one sealing Ganondorf? Was it the one swallowed by Zelda?
- Hylia Powers: If Hylia created the master sword, which is known for being the sword that seals the darkness. It implies that Hylia has light powers. In some references, Hylia is named the goddess of light. But we see that Rauru’s has light powers and Sonia (Hylia descendant) has time powers.
- Going back to the past If Zelda went back to the time when Hyrule was founded. So it was pretty much a time close to Skyward Sword. How is it that neither Sonia nor Rauru are aware of the master sword? Where is the master sword of that time? Does it imply there is two master swords now just like the tears ?
2023.05.30 05:38 HowToTrainYour_Eevee (Spoilers, probably) I think this is my headcanon now (4 separate continuities dealing with roughly the same events happening slightly differently i.e.: Creation of Hyrule -> Rise of Ganondorf -> Ganondorf becomes Ganon -> Ganon defeated. The Sealing War is usually involved.)
 | https://preview.redd.it/in1o9qnegx2b1.jpg?width=1574&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aef0cc25ea4808b21e53d8213f9c672e37a0eddc submitted by HowToTrainYour_Eevee to legendofzelda [link] [comments] Been going back and forth on this as of late and I keep coming back to the same conclusion. It solves several issues: Why would the Gerudo (and Hyrule) trust Ganondorf if a previous Ganondorf caused problems in the past (or even name their son Ganondorf in the first place)? Cause in each continuity, he's the first and only Ganondorf. What's up with the sudden resurgence in the worshipping of Hylia in the Era of the Wild when no one mentioned her in any games before SS? Well now she only existed in one continuity. She doesn't exist in the other games because those exist in a different continuity. Inconsistencies with events surrounding the "Sealing War" across the different titles? Different continuities, different sequence of events. The Downfall Timeline doesn't make any sense in the original timeline. Now we don't have to deal with that. It's its own continuity. No more "what if?" scenarios that make the multiverse technically canon. You may be wondering about the various nods to events of previous games in BotW, such as mention of Nabooru and Ruto and Zelda's speech that says "skyward bound, adrift in time, or steeped in the glowing embers of twilight." And fair enough. These are obvious nods to the previous games. During the Era of Myth, it seems a lot of the events of the previous games did indeed happen, albeit a bit different. The games themselves appear to be the stories as they have been passed down, as their events have been misconstrued to time (see Fi's comment on the Oral Tradition). This seems to be what's accepted by the fandom, and while I don't remember a specific source from Nintendo that makes this clear, I also go along with this assumption. But in terms of how the legendary events of the Era if Myth actually happened, we can really only refer to historical accounts found in BotW and TotK. So in the "Goddess Arc", there was an evil man who sought to rule the world who was defeated by Princess Ruto, Nabooru, (probably Darunia), the princess of Hyrule, the hero of legend, and the rest of the sages (that information alone is all that is given to us in BotW). But nowhere is it said in the Goddess Arc that this "evil man" was named Ganondorf. Previously, I assumed Urbosa's comment about Ganondorf was also about this "evil man" since those events are clearly a nod to Ocarina of Time, but in retrospect she could've been referring to the Ganondorf of TotK. I know that wouldn't have been the case when BotW was created, but with the events of TotK, we can just call it a retcon. That now she is referring the TotK's Ganondorf, and not OoT's Ganondorf. |
2023.05.30 01:56 polarttarius [WTS] Samples of Tom Ford, Maison Margiela, Jo Malone, Mugler, Dior, Dolce & Gabbana, Giorgio Armani, Kilian, Paco Rabanne, Prada, Versace, Viktor & Rolf and more (Decant)
verificationVenmo, Paypal F&F, G&S (+4% fee). Shipping $4, no minimum. Shipped in 2 business days. Drug, pet, covid free. Packed securely in box and/or bubble mailer & teflon tape to prevent leakage
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submitted by polarttarius to fragranceswap [link] [comments]
Tom Ford
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2023.05.29 21:26 AzelfWillpower [TotK] A theory about the Master Sword
Now this is partially me coping about the Master Sword being so easily wrecked by a Triforce-less Ganondorf, but hear me out.
The Master Sword, during the time of BotW/TotK, has a number of faults not present in earlier entries of the series. During a fight with Guardians, the sword is damaged so seriously that it has to rest for a whopping one hundred years to recuperate. Not only that, but a further set of trials are required to increase the power of the blade. It is unable to seal Calamity Ganon, requiring Zelda's sage abilities -- something usually only required when Ganon holds a piece of the Triforce. And most notably, in the opening scene of TotK, mere gloom blasts are enough to completely shatter the legendary sword, rendering it useless until it was given an eons-long nap in the Light Dragon's head.
There's also the matter of the Master Sword needing to recharge within the gameplay of BotW/TotK. However, do you recall a certain memory in BotW? The one where there are 4-6 deceased Silver Lynels amongst a horde of other slain monsters, all killed by Link with minimal injury? The only weapon Link is shown to have in memories is the Master Sword (although there might be one where he uses a generic metal sword prior to getting the Blade of Evil's Bane), and there's never any mention of it needing to recharge. I think it's a safe conclusion to draw that the Master Sword running out of energy is more or less a gameplay mechanic.
So where does this leave us? Generally speaking, even assuming the recharge thing is a gameplay mechanic, the showings of the Master Sword in the last two games of the series have been a bit weaker than in previous games in the franchise, with the sword being damaged and even straight up broken with relative ease. This is presumably the same blade that caught thunderbolts from Demise, slew an immortal King of Evil holding the Triforce of Power, and depending on the timeline, killed Ganon countless times. Yet a skeletal Ganondorf, not even in his Demon King form, not even holding a Triforce piece, is able to obliterate it with two gloom blasts. That doesn't particularly make sense.
Here's what I propose. The key to the Master Sword's strength in previous games is its most iconic resting place, a location of sacred power so strong that it's directly connected to the Sacred Realm -- the Temple of Time. Let us walk through the Master Sword's various appearances, chronologically.
The Blade of Evil's Bane as depicted in Skyward Sword is arguably the most powerful one. Starting as the Goddess Sword, you gradually power it up throughout the course of the story, from the Goddess Longsword, to the Goddess White Sword, to the Master Sword, and eventually the True Master Sword. This is accomplished through a series of Sacred Flames, described as "the breath of life itself", personally created by the Golden Goddesses. The final touch to the legendary blade is a blessing from Zelda, who in Skyward Sword is the closest thing to Hylia herself. There's a common misconception that every Zelda is Hylia Reborn. This is false. They carry the Blood of the Goddess, but only Skyward Sword Zelda is a direct reincarnation of Hylia. She even has Hylia's memories. Skyward Sword's Master Sword is freshly created, bathed in 3 flames made directly by the Golden Goddesses and blessed by the equivalent of Hylia herself. It is used to permanently seal Demise, a demon of such power that the main villain of the series, Ganondorf, is a mere reflection of his hatred. Also, it can catch thunderbolts, which is fucking awesome. After this, the blade is put to rest in the Temple of Time, where it remains for millennia.
Ocarina of Time is the Master Sword's next (and undoubtedly most iconic) appearance, where it, as it was placed in Skyward Sword, is held in the Temple of Time. It serves as a key directly to the Sacred Realm, a place of such holy magic that the Triforce itself is contained there. Such is the Master Sword's power that, after sealing Link for an entire seven years, it's able to seal the King of Evil and his Triforce of Power with the help of the Seven Sages, besting him in single combat not once, but twice. This is the same Ganondorf who collapsed an entire castle while exhausted.
There are a lot more appearances after this, so I'll be brief.
Is the Master Sword from ALTTP/ALBW stronger than the sword immediately after being bathed in three flames from Din, Farore, and Nayru, before being blessed by the literal light of a Goddess? I mean, possibly, this series has had sillier plot points, but I don't think that's the case.
I think the Master Sword has lost some degree of power by the time of ALTTP/ALBW, and the upgrades we see in those games don't make it four times stronger than SS/OoT's Master Sword, but rather restore some of its previous power. They aren't permanent, either. They're superficial upgrades, healed away when the Master Sword is put back into its pedestal. The Master Sword has lost so much power that it's malleable by the hammer of a swordsmith or magic from a mere Great Fairy.
So how does this translate into BotW/TotK? If you'll remember, a major plot point is that the Master Sword is able to gain power when bathed in sacred light. The Deku Tree says as much to Zelda. A steady stream of sacred light is what's able to restore the Master Sword's luster, bring it back to its status as the legendary sword it's supposed to be. I believe that the reason for the Master Sword's apparent decrease in power throughout the Downfall Timeline as well as the need for the constant blessing of Sages in the Adult Timeline is one thing; the lack of the Temple of Time. To put it bluntly, there is no resting place even remotely as sacred as that of the Temple of Time. Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, and Twilight Princess, games where the Master Sword has no known faults and never has to be upgraded or repaired, are ones where it has been in the Temple of Time for millennia. The Temple's pedestal is connected directly to the Sacred Realm, as well as possessing the ability for extremely potent time travel.
This isn't to say that the pedestal found within the woods doesn't have magic properties, but I wouldn't call it exactly "sacred". In Creating a Champion, the following is stated:
TL;DR: The Master Sword loses power when not in a sacred pedestal like the one found in the Temple of Time. In the pedestals of the forest (ALttP/ALBW/BotW/TotK), it draws upon the "power of the land" to heal itself, resulting in an overall weakened blade. The upgrades in ALTTP/ALBW do not make the sword four times stronger than SS/OoT/TP's Master Sword, but are superficial power increases as a result of the sword losing so much power that it has become malleable enough to have its appearance changed by mere swordsmiths and Great Fairies. It requires the prayers of Sages in Wind Waker because it both lacks a sacred pedestal and there is little life of the land to draw energy from. And finally, it is able to be shattered in TotK due to thousands upon thousands of years without being bathed in sacred energy.
submitted by AzelfWillpower to truezelda [link] [comments]
The Master Sword, during the time of BotW/TotK, has a number of faults not present in earlier entries of the series. During a fight with Guardians, the sword is damaged so seriously that it has to rest for a whopping one hundred years to recuperate. Not only that, but a further set of trials are required to increase the power of the blade. It is unable to seal Calamity Ganon, requiring Zelda's sage abilities -- something usually only required when Ganon holds a piece of the Triforce. And most notably, in the opening scene of TotK, mere gloom blasts are enough to completely shatter the legendary sword, rendering it useless until it was given an eons-long nap in the Light Dragon's head.
There's also the matter of the Master Sword needing to recharge within the gameplay of BotW/TotK. However, do you recall a certain memory in BotW? The one where there are 4-6 deceased Silver Lynels amongst a horde of other slain monsters, all killed by Link with minimal injury? The only weapon Link is shown to have in memories is the Master Sword (although there might be one where he uses a generic metal sword prior to getting the Blade of Evil's Bane), and there's never any mention of it needing to recharge. I think it's a safe conclusion to draw that the Master Sword running out of energy is more or less a gameplay mechanic.
So where does this leave us? Generally speaking, even assuming the recharge thing is a gameplay mechanic, the showings of the Master Sword in the last two games of the series have been a bit weaker than in previous games in the franchise, with the sword being damaged and even straight up broken with relative ease. This is presumably the same blade that caught thunderbolts from Demise, slew an immortal King of Evil holding the Triforce of Power, and depending on the timeline, killed Ganon countless times. Yet a skeletal Ganondorf, not even in his Demon King form, not even holding a Triforce piece, is able to obliterate it with two gloom blasts. That doesn't particularly make sense.
Here's what I propose. The key to the Master Sword's strength in previous games is its most iconic resting place, a location of sacred power so strong that it's directly connected to the Sacred Realm -- the Temple of Time. Let us walk through the Master Sword's various appearances, chronologically.
The Blade of Evil's Bane as depicted in Skyward Sword is arguably the most powerful one. Starting as the Goddess Sword, you gradually power it up throughout the course of the story, from the Goddess Longsword, to the Goddess White Sword, to the Master Sword, and eventually the True Master Sword. This is accomplished through a series of Sacred Flames, described as "the breath of life itself", personally created by the Golden Goddesses. The final touch to the legendary blade is a blessing from Zelda, who in Skyward Sword is the closest thing to Hylia herself. There's a common misconception that every Zelda is Hylia Reborn. This is false. They carry the Blood of the Goddess, but only Skyward Sword Zelda is a direct reincarnation of Hylia. She even has Hylia's memories. Skyward Sword's Master Sword is freshly created, bathed in 3 flames made directly by the Golden Goddesses and blessed by the equivalent of Hylia herself. It is used to permanently seal Demise, a demon of such power that the main villain of the series, Ganondorf, is a mere reflection of his hatred. Also, it can catch thunderbolts, which is fucking awesome. After this, the blade is put to rest in the Temple of Time, where it remains for millennia.
Ocarina of Time is the Master Sword's next (and undoubtedly most iconic) appearance, where it, as it was placed in Skyward Sword, is held in the Temple of Time. It serves as a key directly to the Sacred Realm, a place of such holy magic that the Triforce itself is contained there. Such is the Master Sword's power that, after sealing Link for an entire seven years, it's able to seal the King of Evil and his Triforce of Power with the help of the Seven Sages, besting him in single combat not once, but twice. This is the same Ganondorf who collapsed an entire castle while exhausted.
There are a lot more appearances after this, so I'll be brief.
- Twilight Princess: The sword has no notable weaknesses. It's left in the Temple of Time once more, which still seems to possess some degree of sacred power as well as the ability to travel in time.
- Wind Waker: The sword has been weakened to the point where the blessings of two sages are required in order to keep its sacred power intact. The Temple of Time is presumably gone and it is now stored in Hyrule Castle. Has also been using its power to seal Ganon's magic for a long time.
Is the Master Sword from ALTTP/ALBW stronger than the sword immediately after being bathed in three flames from Din, Farore, and Nayru, before being blessed by the literal light of a Goddess? I mean, possibly, this series has had sillier plot points, but I don't think that's the case.
I think the Master Sword has lost some degree of power by the time of ALTTP/ALBW, and the upgrades we see in those games don't make it four times stronger than SS/OoT's Master Sword, but rather restore some of its previous power. They aren't permanent, either. They're superficial upgrades, healed away when the Master Sword is put back into its pedestal. The Master Sword has lost so much power that it's malleable by the hammer of a swordsmith or magic from a mere Great Fairy.
So how does this translate into BotW/TotK? If you'll remember, a major plot point is that the Master Sword is able to gain power when bathed in sacred light. The Deku Tree says as much to Zelda. A steady stream of sacred light is what's able to restore the Master Sword's luster, bring it back to its status as the legendary sword it's supposed to be. I believe that the reason for the Master Sword's apparent decrease in power throughout the Downfall Timeline as well as the need for the constant blessing of Sages in the Adult Timeline is one thing; the lack of the Temple of Time. To put it bluntly, there is no resting place even remotely as sacred as that of the Temple of Time. Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, and Twilight Princess, games where the Master Sword has no known faults and never has to be upgraded or repaired, are ones where it has been in the Temple of Time for millennia. The Temple's pedestal is connected directly to the Sacred Realm, as well as possessing the ability for extremely potent time travel.
This isn't to say that the pedestal found within the woods doesn't have magic properties, but I wouldn't call it exactly "sacred". In Creating a Champion, the following is stated:
"The Master Sword has averted many calamities alongside the hero, and the pedestal that restores the sword from the damage it incurs in those battles is located in Korok Forest, which brims with the energy of the land."There's specific wording here. The Master Sword, rather than drawing upon sacred power (like that found in the Temple of Time or the energy from the Light Dragon), draws upon the energy of the land in order to heal. Certainly potent, but it's not sacred power. Not only would this explain the sword being weaker in BotW/TotK (and possibly even in ALTTP/ALBW), it would also explain the need for two sages to pray to it in Wind Waker. Not only is it in neither a sacred location nor one full of life, the Master Sword is in a world where the vast majority of life in Hyrule was snuffed out by both Ganon and a terrible flood. There is far less energy "of the land" to gather -- which is especially problematic given that the Master Sword is also sealing Ganondorf's minions and his magic.
TL;DR: The Master Sword loses power when not in a sacred pedestal like the one found in the Temple of Time. In the pedestals of the forest (ALttP/ALBW/BotW/TotK), it draws upon the "power of the land" to heal itself, resulting in an overall weakened blade. The upgrades in ALTTP/ALBW do not make the sword four times stronger than SS/OoT/TP's Master Sword, but are superficial power increases as a result of the sword losing so much power that it has become malleable enough to have its appearance changed by mere swordsmiths and Great Fairies. It requires the prayers of Sages in Wind Waker because it both lacks a sacred pedestal and there is little life of the land to draw energy from. And finally, it is able to be shattered in TotK due to thousands upon thousands of years without being bathed in sacred energy.
2023.05.29 20:54 KingHotDogGuy [TotK] I think I cracked the timeline. I call it One Impa Theory.
At the end of Skyward Sword, Link and Zelda leave the Master Sword in Young Impa's time and return to the era of Skyloft. Ocarina and the other games will happen in the future.
Young Impa remains behind. The Goddess Hylia passed away a short time ago to eventually reincarnate, but Demise has just now been defeated by a mortal with the sword and the Triforce. The Triforce is in Impa's care, with instructions from the Goddess to hide it from mortal history. The Master Sword is here, despite not having really been created yet. I think this is the world of Breath of the Wild.
A step back to view the full timeline. Before everything, Rauru and Sonia founded Hyrule and encountered Ganondorf who becomes the original Demon King. These seem to be the earliest events on any timeline because they are. They have no sword that seals the darkness and no knight, evidently only gaining knowledge of them from Zelda. The only mention of gods or goddesses is Ganondorf’s statement that the Zonai must at first have resembled them. And for once the sage’s stones haven’t been passed down by their people since forever, we see them handed out for the first time. So this really is the beginning of known history, at least for now.
Years later we get the first Great Calamity, the one supposedly depicted on Impa’s tapestry. But the tapestry is a lie, because Impa told us at the end of SS the Goddess said the Triforce had to be hidden from mortal history. The tapestry just says the Calamity was defeated by the hero with the sword aided by a princess, this basically describes the Hero of the Sky's intervention in this timeline and is what Impa wants to happen if the Calamity does happen again. But the real story of the first Calamity is the story of the past in Skyward Sword, as first depicted in the intro cinematic and later modified by us: the Demon King’s armies came out of the earth to take the Triforce from Hylia, Demise wounds Hylia but she seals him temporarily. Hylia passes away, but Ghirahim suddenly appears and uses Zelda’s spirit to bring back Demise, who is then defeated by the hero with the Master Sword and the Triforce.
Skyward Sword’s present day is the second Calamity in the timeline where Hylia sealed the Demon King herself and then created the Goddess Sword. Hylia is reborn as Zelda, Link creates the sword and defeats Demise, but they remain unaware of Ganondorf's buried corpse with Rauru's arm, so it remains there for Koume and Kotake to reanimate for Ocarina of Time. (I know the pits behind the Sealed Temple which isn't close to Hyrule Castle so this is a little shaky here for a couple reasons but I think it basically holds up.)
Breath of the Wild is the second Calamity in young Impa’s timeline, where the Hero of the Sky appeared at the end of the first Calamity with the Master Sword and defeated the Demon King, then left the sword there and returned to the future. Crucially this explains how the Master Sword is present in the story of the first Calamity and in BotW, but doesn’t exist in Rauru’s time, and neither does the legend of Hylia confronting Demise and raising Skyloft. That legend is based on the first Calamity, and was passed down in a future that won't happen anymore because we altered the first Calamity, but the Master Sword was brought back from that future. (TotK's Mother Goddess statue gives you the White Sword of the Sky I think as a nod to the fact that because of this loop in the SS ending the Master Sword and Goddess Sword are both present in this world.)
Whatever exactly Hylia is, she’s not mentioned in Rauru’s time, or in the tapestry legend, but is widely worshiped in BotW+TotK. In SS, Demise talks about the humans he knew “clinging to their goddess.” But people in Ganondorf’s time don’t seem to know Hylia much less cling to her, if anything they cling to their Zonai overlords, so SS Demise must be talking about events from his previous return in the first Calamity. Hylia must first appear before the first Calamity, and dies before Impa and future Link intervene to defeat Demise. Impa leaves Hylia out of the story of the Calamity because Hylia told her to leave the Triforce out, but she doesn’t try to erase all memory of Hylia, because she is still going to be reincarnated in the future. Presumably, our BotW+TotK Zelda, in addition to now having consumed a Zonai secret stone, become an immortal dragon, and returned to human form, is Hylia reincarnated. Basically she's the same Zelda from SS, it's basically the same year, but in a parallel universe where the Sheikah brought Skyloft back down right after the Hero of the Sky beat Demise.
Why One Impa Theory? I figure the truth of BotW+TotK is most likely found in the backstory of the most recent title as is usual in Zelda, and when you look for common threads, what you see is Impa. She's one of the original characters dating back to the NES Zelda manual, but she is not part of Demise's Curse, so I don't think she's being reborn. It's possible the Sheikah are reusing her name, and it's unclear how to tie SS+BotW Impa to Ocarina, but we see Impa prominently reintroduced in Skyward right alongside the expanded role of time travel in the story, and then in BotW and TotK, while her sister Purah perfects an anti-aging rune, Impa is kinda in the back seat, but mostly concerned with finding Zelda. At the end of TotK she's still talking about her tapestry, and definitely giving off an air of knowing a lot more than she's telling. If I'm right, she not only knows the tapestry is less than half the whole story, she knows the location of the Triforce, the origins of the Master Sword in an alternate future, and that their friend Zelda is probably a reborn goddess. There's also clearly some connection between the Sheikah and Mineru or other Zonai that Impa could probably explain, along with Hylia's story. Impa is really holding out on us.
Also, since this means the tapestry is a version of Skyward Sword's history modified by Impa, the most likely reason the tapestry hero has red hair is that she combined attributes of the Hero of the Sky, with our main man Groose.
It's shaky in a few spots, and it ignores the inclusion in the game of many items and ruins from other games. But I think it works better than anything I've read, and coming after Skyward Sword's heavy narrative I really don't think this game is meant to disregard or reboot the timeline. And as for ruins, it is notable that the primary locations from the surface in SS, the Sealed Temple and the three springs, are all here in basically the same condition, and even after exploring all our TotK sky islands, there are no ruins from Skyloft.
submitted by KingHotDogGuy to truezelda [link] [comments]
Young Impa remains behind. The Goddess Hylia passed away a short time ago to eventually reincarnate, but Demise has just now been defeated by a mortal with the sword and the Triforce. The Triforce is in Impa's care, with instructions from the Goddess to hide it from mortal history. The Master Sword is here, despite not having really been created yet. I think this is the world of Breath of the Wild.
A step back to view the full timeline. Before everything, Rauru and Sonia founded Hyrule and encountered Ganondorf who becomes the original Demon King. These seem to be the earliest events on any timeline because they are. They have no sword that seals the darkness and no knight, evidently only gaining knowledge of them from Zelda. The only mention of gods or goddesses is Ganondorf’s statement that the Zonai must at first have resembled them. And for once the sage’s stones haven’t been passed down by their people since forever, we see them handed out for the first time. So this really is the beginning of known history, at least for now.
Years later we get the first Great Calamity, the one supposedly depicted on Impa’s tapestry. But the tapestry is a lie, because Impa told us at the end of SS the Goddess said the Triforce had to be hidden from mortal history. The tapestry just says the Calamity was defeated by the hero with the sword aided by a princess, this basically describes the Hero of the Sky's intervention in this timeline and is what Impa wants to happen if the Calamity does happen again. But the real story of the first Calamity is the story of the past in Skyward Sword, as first depicted in the intro cinematic and later modified by us: the Demon King’s armies came out of the earth to take the Triforce from Hylia, Demise wounds Hylia but she seals him temporarily. Hylia passes away, but Ghirahim suddenly appears and uses Zelda’s spirit to bring back Demise, who is then defeated by the hero with the Master Sword and the Triforce.
Skyward Sword’s present day is the second Calamity in the timeline where Hylia sealed the Demon King herself and then created the Goddess Sword. Hylia is reborn as Zelda, Link creates the sword and defeats Demise, but they remain unaware of Ganondorf's buried corpse with Rauru's arm, so it remains there for Koume and Kotake to reanimate for Ocarina of Time. (I know the pits behind the Sealed Temple which isn't close to Hyrule Castle so this is a little shaky here for a couple reasons but I think it basically holds up.)
Breath of the Wild is the second Calamity in young Impa’s timeline, where the Hero of the Sky appeared at the end of the first Calamity with the Master Sword and defeated the Demon King, then left the sword there and returned to the future. Crucially this explains how the Master Sword is present in the story of the first Calamity and in BotW, but doesn’t exist in Rauru’s time, and neither does the legend of Hylia confronting Demise and raising Skyloft. That legend is based on the first Calamity, and was passed down in a future that won't happen anymore because we altered the first Calamity, but the Master Sword was brought back from that future. (TotK's Mother Goddess statue gives you the White Sword of the Sky I think as a nod to the fact that because of this loop in the SS ending the Master Sword and Goddess Sword are both present in this world.)
Whatever exactly Hylia is, she’s not mentioned in Rauru’s time, or in the tapestry legend, but is widely worshiped in BotW+TotK. In SS, Demise talks about the humans he knew “clinging to their goddess.” But people in Ganondorf’s time don’t seem to know Hylia much less cling to her, if anything they cling to their Zonai overlords, so SS Demise must be talking about events from his previous return in the first Calamity. Hylia must first appear before the first Calamity, and dies before Impa and future Link intervene to defeat Demise. Impa leaves Hylia out of the story of the Calamity because Hylia told her to leave the Triforce out, but she doesn’t try to erase all memory of Hylia, because she is still going to be reincarnated in the future. Presumably, our BotW+TotK Zelda, in addition to now having consumed a Zonai secret stone, become an immortal dragon, and returned to human form, is Hylia reincarnated. Basically she's the same Zelda from SS, it's basically the same year, but in a parallel universe where the Sheikah brought Skyloft back down right after the Hero of the Sky beat Demise.
Why One Impa Theory? I figure the truth of BotW+TotK is most likely found in the backstory of the most recent title as is usual in Zelda, and when you look for common threads, what you see is Impa. She's one of the original characters dating back to the NES Zelda manual, but she is not part of Demise's Curse, so I don't think she's being reborn. It's possible the Sheikah are reusing her name, and it's unclear how to tie SS+BotW Impa to Ocarina, but we see Impa prominently reintroduced in Skyward right alongside the expanded role of time travel in the story, and then in BotW and TotK, while her sister Purah perfects an anti-aging rune, Impa is kinda in the back seat, but mostly concerned with finding Zelda. At the end of TotK she's still talking about her tapestry, and definitely giving off an air of knowing a lot more than she's telling. If I'm right, she not only knows the tapestry is less than half the whole story, she knows the location of the Triforce, the origins of the Master Sword in an alternate future, and that their friend Zelda is probably a reborn goddess. There's also clearly some connection between the Sheikah and Mineru or other Zonai that Impa could probably explain, along with Hylia's story. Impa is really holding out on us.
Also, since this means the tapestry is a version of Skyward Sword's history modified by Impa, the most likely reason the tapestry hero has red hair is that she combined attributes of the Hero of the Sky, with our main man Groose.
It's shaky in a few spots, and it ignores the inclusion in the game of many items and ruins from other games. But I think it works better than anything I've read, and coming after Skyward Sword's heavy narrative I really don't think this game is meant to disregard or reboot the timeline. And as for ruins, it is notable that the primary locations from the surface in SS, the Sealed Temple and the three springs, are all here in basically the same condition, and even after exploring all our TotK sky islands, there are no ruins from Skyloft.
2023.05.29 14:51 Edggie_Reggie [TotK] TotK Timeline Placement Theory. Answering the Rito Problem, Imprisoning War & First Monarchs of Hyrule
(Reposting for different title) This is a very long post, so bear with me.
The Legend of Zelda timeline doesn’t make sense. Thanks to voice lines from every single sage, we know that the flashbacks take place during the Imprisoning War, which takes place in the Fallen Timeline of the franchise. The earlier flashbacks closely echo some of the events of Ocarina of Time, with the introduction of Ganondorf and Zelda taking the place of link in warning the king and queen of Ganondorf’s ill intentions. It sort of makes sense, since there doesn’t appear to be a Link/someone possessing the Spirit of the Hero in this era. However, this cannot possibly be the Imprisoning War, since Rauru said that he and Sonia were the first king and queen of Hyrule. That would mean that the flashbacks take place long before the events of The Minish Cap, possibly thousands of years before OoT. Furthermore, the Rito are fully fledged beings, and yet they don’t appear to exist until the events of Wind Waker, which is an alternate timeline – the Adult Timeline. From several games in the Fallen timeline, the Zora are shown to be nothing more than mindless monsters, such as in A Link Between Worlds, and yet in OoT, they are fully sentient beings.
I think I know a way to explain almost everything I mentioned above. Breath of the Wild seems to bridge all three alternate timelines: there are sentient Zora, fully fledged Rito, the Imprisoning War, etc. and several millennia have passed between BotW and the earlier games. But there’s more. I believe that the change from sentient Zora to mindless monsters happened due to the carnage of the Imprisoning War. I think it’s possible that the War resulted in the loss of Zora leadership, leading to the apparent “savagery” (for lack of better words) in the Zora in the Fallen Timeline. In the book, The Lord of the Flies, a large group of schoolboys find themselves alone on an island with no adults. Over the course of the book, they become less ‘civilised’, more barbaric and ‘savage’. I believe this could be an explanation for what happened to the Zora. It’s not a perfect explanation, but, at least to me, it works. What isn’t quite explainable, however, is how the Imprisoning War could occur during the reign of the first Hyrulian Royal family, or how the Rito could exist that far back in the timeline. How could these three ‘things’ exist simultaneously?
Well, dear Redditiors, Zelda fans and theorists, I would like to propose to you that they can exist simultaneously. In the Twilight Princess, you can find a carving which appears to depict the Rito. But how could that be? Surely the Rito didn’t exist in this timeline? In this section in the timeline, yes, but what about earlier? Much, much earlier. What if, now hear me out, what if the Rito, as we know, love, and hate them, already existed? How did they did they disappear so soon after founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule and before The Minish Cap? Well, if in just a few centuries, the Kokiri can evolve/change/mutate into the Koroks and the Zora into the Rito, why couldn’t the Rito themselves evolve/change/mutate following the Imprisoning War? If you’re wondering how that could possibly be the case, when the Rito have never featured in the Fallen Timeline, I’m here to tell you that I’m not talking about that Imprisoning War. I’m taking about a different one.
I believe that the Imprisoning War that featured in TotK and the one in the Fallen Timeline are, in fact, two separate events. I believe that the Imprisoning War in TotK was the First Imprisoning War. If you’re wondering how that’s possible when the villain is so clearly Ganondorf, who was first introduced in OoT, well, why couldn’t it be a different Gerudo male called Ganondorf? In BotW, Urbosa said that a Gerudo male once took the form of Ganon. It makes sense that she would be referring to OoT Ganondorf. If it happened more than once, surely, she would have said so? Not really, no. Remember, more than 10,000 years have passed between games. History can become lost to time. Let’s take another look at the glyph depicting two dragons, each consuming the other’s tail. It looks identical to the symbol of an Ouroboros Cycle – a continuous cycle of events. But here’s the thing, there are two dragons, not one. It’s possible this refers to more than one continuous cycle. There’s the cycle born from the Demon King’s Curse, but there’s more. Shortly after the founding of Hyrule, Ganondorf is sealed away in the Imprisoning War, 10,000 years later is the First Great Calamity. 10,000 years after that is the Second Great Calamity. 20,000 years before TotK, the Rito existed, then they disappeared. Several thousand years later, they reappeared. Ganondorf rose to power and was defeated in a war, thousands of years later, in OoT a Ganondorf rose again, and was defeated, again. Here’s what I believe happened. In the early years of the kingdom of Hyrule’s founding, the Rito, as we know them in BotW, existed, the Zora were sentient, everything was as it was in the flashbacks in Tears of the Kingdom. When the first Ganondorf rose to power and began his war on Hyrule, I believe it’s possible that, knowing the Rito have an advantage with their flight and are skilled archers, a portion of Ganondorf’s resources were spent to nullify the Rito’s advantage as much as possible. As a result, the remaining Rito fled to the rockspires in the middle of Lake Totori – a very defensive position. Also, take a moment to examine Rito Village’s location. It’s in Hebra. Playing as Link, you need cold resistance clothing or food, so you don’t take freeze. For the Gerudo, who lived in the desert, I expect the cold temperatures would’ve been unbearable. Despite this, the Rito sage did not falter and offered his allegiance to Rauru.
Hyrule succeeded in stopping Ganondorf, but it came at a heavy price: both Hyrulian monarchs were dead, and Ganondorf would return. Now, here comes the heavy speculation (mostly hearsay). If the First Imprisoning War echoes the events of the Second, there must have been a Spirit of the Hero. I think the Spirit of the Hero was Rauru. My evidence for which is that Sonia is likely a descendant of Skyward Sword’s Zelda, and there is always some connection between a Zelda – the incarnation/descendent of the goddess Hylia – and her chosen hero (that’s literally about it). But Rauru, possessing the Spirit of the Hero, and Sonia, the blood of the goddess, were killed. (Side note: Rauru and Soina mentioned that Zelda was their direct descendent, but we never see nor hear of them having any children. Nothing important for this theory, just interesting.) As for the Rito, their population was decimated. There were so few of them left, they decided to look outside of Hebra to keep their numbers. As seen from the carvings in Twilight Princess, they may have had some success, with the best results coming from coupling with Hylians (and possibly Zora? (don’t try to think about this too much)), but in the end, it was a fruitless endeavour. Long before the events of The Minish Cap transpired, the last resemblance of the Rito vanished. But for the rest of Hyrule, life moved on. And the Demon Curse continued to harass the Spirit of the Hero and the Princess of Hyrule. (How could the curse persist when Ganondorf was still alive? Even though he was technically still alive, I think he was dead enough that the timeline could move on.)
Fast forward thousands of years into the future to the events of the Ocarina of Time, another Ganondorf was born to the Gerudo, the first Gerudo male born in 100 years. He began another war against Hyrule, ruling the kingdom for seven years before he was defeated by Link and sealed away. In the Adult Timeline, the Hero of Time was returned to the past, so when Ganondorf returned, Hyrule was left without a Hero. The sages sealed Ganondorf away again, in a different Imprisoning War to the one in the Fallen Timeline. The Gods flooded Hyrule, creating the Great Sea, and… the Zora became the Rito? Among the many things that don’t make sense, why water-adept beings evolved to have flight is a mystery, unless, of course, the Zora lived in fresh water and couldn’t tolerate salt water. It always confused me as to why the Rito in WW looked more like Hylians than Zora, even if a few centuries had passed. Furthermore, the Rito only “got their wings” from a dragon scale. I have little evidence for this, other than speculation, but I think it’s likely that the Rito evolved from the Hylians and Zora who had even the faintest of traces of Rito DNA, back from the aftermath of the First Imprisoning War. Remember what King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule said in WW, that the Gods told some people to go to the highest peaks. But why not all of them? That I do not know. Maybe a YouTuber has already covered it.
Nevertheless, over the centuries, the Rito evolved to the ones we know in BotW, the Great Sea drained and Hyrule returned to the surface. People returned to Hyrule and started their civilisation anew. Thousands of years after this, the First Great Calamity occurred. 10,000 years later, the Second Great Calamity. In the months following the Second Great Calamity, Ganondorf was reawakened, as were the sages. The ancestors of the BotW sages appeared to each of their descendants and told them the story of the Imprisoning War. The First Imprisoning War.
The greatest issue in writing this theory was the existence of the Rito in the Imprisoning War. With only the carvings hinting to their existence in the Timeline before the split in OoT in Twilight Princess, the Rito only featured in the Adult Timeline. Is this theory perfect? No, definitely not. But does it work? Somehow, kind of. The Rito must have existed at the founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule, yet they never feature in a game until Wind Waker. We learn that the Rito evolved from the Zora after the gods drowned Hyrule. However, they must have existed at some point prior to Ocarina of Time due to the carvings seen in Twilight Princess, but they weren’t the Rito in WW, BotW or even the flashbacks in TotK. I’m sure I’ve missed many things that support and contradict this theory.
Much of it is just hearsay, but it’s the best I’ve got. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
submitted by Edggie_Reggie to truezelda [link] [comments]
The Legend of Zelda timeline doesn’t make sense. Thanks to voice lines from every single sage, we know that the flashbacks take place during the Imprisoning War, which takes place in the Fallen Timeline of the franchise. The earlier flashbacks closely echo some of the events of Ocarina of Time, with the introduction of Ganondorf and Zelda taking the place of link in warning the king and queen of Ganondorf’s ill intentions. It sort of makes sense, since there doesn’t appear to be a Link/someone possessing the Spirit of the Hero in this era. However, this cannot possibly be the Imprisoning War, since Rauru said that he and Sonia were the first king and queen of Hyrule. That would mean that the flashbacks take place long before the events of The Minish Cap, possibly thousands of years before OoT. Furthermore, the Rito are fully fledged beings, and yet they don’t appear to exist until the events of Wind Waker, which is an alternate timeline – the Adult Timeline. From several games in the Fallen timeline, the Zora are shown to be nothing more than mindless monsters, such as in A Link Between Worlds, and yet in OoT, they are fully sentient beings.
I think I know a way to explain almost everything I mentioned above. Breath of the Wild seems to bridge all three alternate timelines: there are sentient Zora, fully fledged Rito, the Imprisoning War, etc. and several millennia have passed between BotW and the earlier games. But there’s more. I believe that the change from sentient Zora to mindless monsters happened due to the carnage of the Imprisoning War. I think it’s possible that the War resulted in the loss of Zora leadership, leading to the apparent “savagery” (for lack of better words) in the Zora in the Fallen Timeline. In the book, The Lord of the Flies, a large group of schoolboys find themselves alone on an island with no adults. Over the course of the book, they become less ‘civilised’, more barbaric and ‘savage’. I believe this could be an explanation for what happened to the Zora. It’s not a perfect explanation, but, at least to me, it works. What isn’t quite explainable, however, is how the Imprisoning War could occur during the reign of the first Hyrulian Royal family, or how the Rito could exist that far back in the timeline. How could these three ‘things’ exist simultaneously?
Well, dear Redditiors, Zelda fans and theorists, I would like to propose to you that they can exist simultaneously. In the Twilight Princess, you can find a carving which appears to depict the Rito. But how could that be? Surely the Rito didn’t exist in this timeline? In this section in the timeline, yes, but what about earlier? Much, much earlier. What if, now hear me out, what if the Rito, as we know, love, and hate them, already existed? How did they did they disappear so soon after founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule and before The Minish Cap? Well, if in just a few centuries, the Kokiri can evolve/change/mutate into the Koroks and the Zora into the Rito, why couldn’t the Rito themselves evolve/change/mutate following the Imprisoning War? If you’re wondering how that could possibly be the case, when the Rito have never featured in the Fallen Timeline, I’m here to tell you that I’m not talking about that Imprisoning War. I’m taking about a different one.
I believe that the Imprisoning War that featured in TotK and the one in the Fallen Timeline are, in fact, two separate events. I believe that the Imprisoning War in TotK was the First Imprisoning War. If you’re wondering how that’s possible when the villain is so clearly Ganondorf, who was first introduced in OoT, well, why couldn’t it be a different Gerudo male called Ganondorf? In BotW, Urbosa said that a Gerudo male once took the form of Ganon. It makes sense that she would be referring to OoT Ganondorf. If it happened more than once, surely, she would have said so? Not really, no. Remember, more than 10,000 years have passed between games. History can become lost to time. Let’s take another look at the glyph depicting two dragons, each consuming the other’s tail. It looks identical to the symbol of an Ouroboros Cycle – a continuous cycle of events. But here’s the thing, there are two dragons, not one. It’s possible this refers to more than one continuous cycle. There’s the cycle born from the Demon King’s Curse, but there’s more. Shortly after the founding of Hyrule, Ganondorf is sealed away in the Imprisoning War, 10,000 years later is the First Great Calamity. 10,000 years after that is the Second Great Calamity. 20,000 years before TotK, the Rito existed, then they disappeared. Several thousand years later, they reappeared. Ganondorf rose to power and was defeated in a war, thousands of years later, in OoT a Ganondorf rose again, and was defeated, again. Here’s what I believe happened. In the early years of the kingdom of Hyrule’s founding, the Rito, as we know them in BotW, existed, the Zora were sentient, everything was as it was in the flashbacks in Tears of the Kingdom. When the first Ganondorf rose to power and began his war on Hyrule, I believe it’s possible that, knowing the Rito have an advantage with their flight and are skilled archers, a portion of Ganondorf’s resources were spent to nullify the Rito’s advantage as much as possible. As a result, the remaining Rito fled to the rockspires in the middle of Lake Totori – a very defensive position. Also, take a moment to examine Rito Village’s location. It’s in Hebra. Playing as Link, you need cold resistance clothing or food, so you don’t take freeze. For the Gerudo, who lived in the desert, I expect the cold temperatures would’ve been unbearable. Despite this, the Rito sage did not falter and offered his allegiance to Rauru.
Hyrule succeeded in stopping Ganondorf, but it came at a heavy price: both Hyrulian monarchs were dead, and Ganondorf would return. Now, here comes the heavy speculation (mostly hearsay). If the First Imprisoning War echoes the events of the Second, there must have been a Spirit of the Hero. I think the Spirit of the Hero was Rauru. My evidence for which is that Sonia is likely a descendant of Skyward Sword’s Zelda, and there is always some connection between a Zelda – the incarnation/descendent of the goddess Hylia – and her chosen hero (that’s literally about it). But Rauru, possessing the Spirit of the Hero, and Sonia, the blood of the goddess, were killed. (Side note: Rauru and Soina mentioned that Zelda was their direct descendent, but we never see nor hear of them having any children. Nothing important for this theory, just interesting.) As for the Rito, their population was decimated. There were so few of them left, they decided to look outside of Hebra to keep their numbers. As seen from the carvings in Twilight Princess, they may have had some success, with the best results coming from coupling with Hylians (and possibly Zora? (don’t try to think about this too much)), but in the end, it was a fruitless endeavour. Long before the events of The Minish Cap transpired, the last resemblance of the Rito vanished. But for the rest of Hyrule, life moved on. And the Demon Curse continued to harass the Spirit of the Hero and the Princess of Hyrule. (How could the curse persist when Ganondorf was still alive? Even though he was technically still alive, I think he was dead enough that the timeline could move on.)
Fast forward thousands of years into the future to the events of the Ocarina of Time, another Ganondorf was born to the Gerudo, the first Gerudo male born in 100 years. He began another war against Hyrule, ruling the kingdom for seven years before he was defeated by Link and sealed away. In the Adult Timeline, the Hero of Time was returned to the past, so when Ganondorf returned, Hyrule was left without a Hero. The sages sealed Ganondorf away again, in a different Imprisoning War to the one in the Fallen Timeline. The Gods flooded Hyrule, creating the Great Sea, and… the Zora became the Rito? Among the many things that don’t make sense, why water-adept beings evolved to have flight is a mystery, unless, of course, the Zora lived in fresh water and couldn’t tolerate salt water. It always confused me as to why the Rito in WW looked more like Hylians than Zora, even if a few centuries had passed. Furthermore, the Rito only “got their wings” from a dragon scale. I have little evidence for this, other than speculation, but I think it’s likely that the Rito evolved from the Hylians and Zora who had even the faintest of traces of Rito DNA, back from the aftermath of the First Imprisoning War. Remember what King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule said in WW, that the Gods told some people to go to the highest peaks. But why not all of them? That I do not know. Maybe a YouTuber has already covered it.
Nevertheless, over the centuries, the Rito evolved to the ones we know in BotW, the Great Sea drained and Hyrule returned to the surface. People returned to Hyrule and started their civilisation anew. Thousands of years after this, the First Great Calamity occurred. 10,000 years later, the Second Great Calamity. In the months following the Second Great Calamity, Ganondorf was reawakened, as were the sages. The ancestors of the BotW sages appeared to each of their descendants and told them the story of the Imprisoning War. The First Imprisoning War.
The greatest issue in writing this theory was the existence of the Rito in the Imprisoning War. With only the carvings hinting to their existence in the Timeline before the split in OoT in Twilight Princess, the Rito only featured in the Adult Timeline. Is this theory perfect? No, definitely not. But does it work? Somehow, kind of. The Rito must have existed at the founding of the Kingdom of Hyrule, yet they never feature in a game until Wind Waker. We learn that the Rito evolved from the Zora after the gods drowned Hyrule. However, they must have existed at some point prior to Ocarina of Time due to the carvings seen in Twilight Princess, but they weren’t the Rito in WW, BotW or even the flashbacks in TotK. I’m sure I’ve missed many things that support and contradict this theory.
Much of it is just hearsay, but it’s the best I’ve got. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
2023.05.29 13:32 Deady1 [The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom] The Placement of Rauru's Reign in the Timeline
Disclaimer! This post assumes BotW and TotK happen in the timeline in Hyrule Historia. This post does not reference the Capcom published games, or any manga. Spoilers for the Tears of the Kingdom.
Many people believe that the reign of Rauru takes place during the Era of Prosperity, long after the events of Skyward Sword. However, some key elements from ToTK contradict this.
The reign of Rauru predates the Sky Era, and even the Era of the Goddess Hylia. The kingdom established in The Era of Prosperity is a successor kingdom ruled by his descendants .
Across the franchise, Hylians are said to be close to the gods (Source: ALttP, TP, probably more). The Zonai are said to be descendants of the gods. (Source: Memory #14). It is possible that the intermarrying of the Zonai and native Hyruleans create the race of Hylians.
We know that the Calamity is a recurring event in Hyrule's history. (Source: Symin in the quest Teach Me a Lesson). It is possible that Demise was the first Calamity, born from the overflowing Malice of the sealed ToTKdorf, just as Calamity Ganon was born from the same source 10,000 years before BotW.
So, after the Imprisoning War with Rauru and the secret stone sages...
Eventually, in at least one timeline, the Calamity degenerates into the bestial Calamity Ganon. The Shiekah create Divine Beasts and Guardians to stop it. And the rest, you already know.
In short: World's Creation -> Zonai descend to earth -> Rauru establishes Hyrule -> Demise invades -> Skyward Sword -> Ocarina of Time -> ??? -> Creation of Divine Beasts -> BotW -> TotK
I also have a minor piece of evidence, but it's not concrete. In the tutorial, Rauru says his kingdom was on the surface. This implies the sky islands didn't exist during the Zonai Era. It is possible that the sky islands came to be when Hylia evacuated the surface-dwellers from the demon tribe, creating Skyloft and all the sky islands in TotK, long after the time of Rauru.
Of course, this theory isn't perfect. Ganondorf did rise to power without a Link existing in at least one game before - Wind Waker. Demise's curse is not specific to Zelda and Link in the original Japanese script. TotKdorf could've called Sonia a Hyrulean simply because that's her nationality. Sonia could be descended from Skyward!Zelda to explain her Light power. Hyrule Historia already has the kingdom established after Skyward Sword takes place, and maybe that hasn't changed. Rauru warns TotKdorf of Link and "the sword that seals the darkness", and we don't see Zelda mention the Master Sword to him, so maybe he did know of the Hero of Sky, just not his name. Maybe Rauru established this version of Hyrule way after all the other games, when the previous Hyrule was lost to time. Maybe BotW is a reboot!
No timeline posited in this franchise is perfect - not even the official one.
Either way, I hope the evidence I've gathered here makes sense enough, for you to consider the possibility of the placement of Rauru's kingship in the ever-messier timeline of The Legend of Zelda.
submitted by Deady1 to FanTheories [link] [comments]
Many people believe that the reign of Rauru takes place during the Era of Prosperity, long after the events of Skyward Sword. However, some key elements from ToTK contradict this.
- Hylians are said to have already lived on the surface before Demise conquered their homeland and they escaped to Skyloft, before Skyward Sword. However, TotKdorf refers to Sonia as a Hyrulean, not a Hylian. It's strange he specifically calls her that instead of the race that repopulated the surface after Skyward Sword. Source: Memory #6
- Rauru has never heard of Link. He only learns of Link from Zelda. If he came to power after Skyward Sword takes place, you'd think a godlike being who descended from the sky would know of the hero of Skyloft. Source: Memory #8
- At the end of Skyward Sword, Demise curses the "blood of the goddess, and the spirit of the hero". Zelda promises that she and Link will reincarnate to stop him every time. This is the beginning of Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link being reincarnated across the eons, locked in an eternal battle. However, TotKdorf comes to power in an era without Link. One might argue Sonia has the blood of the goddess and descends from Skyward!Zelda, or that technically Wild!Zelda was teleported to that era, but there is no Link equivalent in this period. There is no spirit of the hero.
The reign of Rauru predates the Sky Era, and even the Era of the Goddess Hylia. The kingdom established in The Era of Prosperity is a successor kingdom ruled by his descendants .
Across the franchise, Hylians are said to be close to the gods (Source: ALttP, TP, probably more). The Zonai are said to be descendants of the gods. (Source: Memory #14). It is possible that the intermarrying of the Zonai and native Hyruleans create the race of Hylians.
We know that the Calamity is a recurring event in Hyrule's history. (Source: Symin in the quest Teach Me a Lesson). It is possible that Demise was the first Calamity, born from the overflowing Malice of the sealed ToTKdorf, just as Calamity Ganon was born from the same source 10,000 years before BotW.
So, after the Imprisoning War with Rauru and the secret stone sages...
- Eventually, the intermarrying of Zonai and Hyrulean natives will create Hylians, who will populate the surface. The goddess Hylia will live among them. This time will be known as the Era of the Goddess Hylia.
- Eventually, TotKdorf sealed under Hyrule will leak enough Malice to birth Demise of the demon tribe. He will conquer the surface, and Hylians will escape to Skyloft. This is the first Calamity, and begins the Sky Era.
- Eventually, Hylia will reincarnate as Zelda of Skyloft, a Hylian descended from Rauru and Sonia. Link will be born a Hylian of Skyloft as well. Together they will forge the Master Sword and save Skyloft and the surface from Demise. Demise will curse the blood of the goddess, and the spirit of the hero. Zelda will promise she and Link will reincarnate to stop him every time.
Eventually, in at least one timeline, the Calamity degenerates into the bestial Calamity Ganon. The Shiekah create Divine Beasts and Guardians to stop it. And the rest, you already know.
In short: World's Creation -> Zonai descend to earth -> Rauru establishes Hyrule -> Demise invades -> Skyward Sword -> Ocarina of Time -> ??? -> Creation of Divine Beasts -> BotW -> TotK
I also have a minor piece of evidence, but it's not concrete. In the tutorial, Rauru says his kingdom was on the surface. This implies the sky islands didn't exist during the Zonai Era. It is possible that the sky islands came to be when Hylia evacuated the surface-dwellers from the demon tribe, creating Skyloft and all the sky islands in TotK, long after the time of Rauru.
Of course, this theory isn't perfect. Ganondorf did rise to power without a Link existing in at least one game before - Wind Waker. Demise's curse is not specific to Zelda and Link in the original Japanese script. TotKdorf could've called Sonia a Hyrulean simply because that's her nationality. Sonia could be descended from Skyward!Zelda to explain her Light power. Hyrule Historia already has the kingdom established after Skyward Sword takes place, and maybe that hasn't changed. Rauru warns TotKdorf of Link and "the sword that seals the darkness", and we don't see Zelda mention the Master Sword to him, so maybe he did know of the Hero of Sky, just not his name. Maybe Rauru established this version of Hyrule way after all the other games, when the previous Hyrule was lost to time. Maybe BotW is a reboot!
No timeline posited in this franchise is perfect - not even the official one.
Either way, I hope the evidence I've gathered here makes sense enough, for you to consider the possibility of the placement of Rauru's kingship in the ever-messier timeline of The Legend of Zelda.
2023.05.29 13:26 Deady1 [Theory] The Placement of Rauru's Reign in the Timeline
Disclaimer! This post assumes BotW and TotK happen in the timeline in Hyrule Historia. This post does not reference the Capcom published games, or any manga. Spoilers for the Tears of the Kingdom.
Many people believe that the reign of Rauru takes place during the Era of Prosperity, long after the events of Skyward Sword. However, some key elements from ToTK contradict this.
The reign of Rauru predates the Sky Era, and even the Era of the Goddess Hylia. The kingdom established in The Era of Prosperity is a successor kingdom ruled by his descendants.
Across the franchise, Hylians are said to be close to the gods (Source: ALttP, TP, probably more). The Zonai are said to be descendants of the gods. (Source: Memory #14). It is possible that the intermarrying of the Zonai and native Hyruleans create the race of Hylians.
We know that the Calamity is a recurring event in Hyrule's history. (Source: Symin in the quest Teach Me a Lesson). It is possible that Demise was the first Calamity, born from the overflowing Malice of the sealed ToTKdorf, just as Calamity Ganon was born from the same source 10,000 years before BotW.
So, after the Imprisoning War with Rauru and the secret stone sages...
Eventually, in at least one timeline, the Calamity degenerates into the bestial Calamity Ganon. The Shiekah create Divine Beasts and Guardians to stop it. And the rest, you already know.
In short: World's Creation -> Zonai descend to earth -> Rauru establishes Hyrule -> Demise invades -> Skyward Sword -> Ocarina of Time -> ??? -> Creation of Divine Beasts -> BotW -> TotK
I also have a minor piece of evidence, but it's not concrete. In the tutorial, Rauru says his kingdom was on the surface. This implies the sky islands didn't exist during the Zonai Era. It is possible that the sky islands came to be when Hylia evacuated the surface-dwellers from the demon tribe, creating Skyloft and all the sky islands in TotK, long after the time of Rauru. (EDIT: the origins of the sky islands is revealed in a quest in TotK)
Of course, this theory isn't perfect. Ganondorf did rise to power without a Link existing in at least one game before - Wind Waker. Demise's curse is not specific to Zelda and Link in the original Japanese script. TotKdorf could've called Sonia a Hyrulean simply because that's her nationality. Hyrule Historia already has the kingdom established after Skyward Sword takes place, and maybe that hasn't changed. Rauru warns TotKdorf of Link and "the sword that seals the darkness", and we don't see Zelda mention the Master Sword to him, so maybe he did know of the Hero of Sky, just not his name. Maybe Rauru established this version of Hyrule way after all the other games, when the previous Hyrule was lost to time. Maybe BotW is a reboot!
No timeline posited in this franchise is perfect - not even the official one. Least of all mine!
Either way, I hope the evidence I've gathered here makes sense enough, for you to consider the possibility of the placement of Rauru's kingship in the ever-messier timeline of The Legend of Zelda.
submitted by Deady1 to TOTK [link] [comments]
Many people believe that the reign of Rauru takes place during the Era of Prosperity, long after the events of Skyward Sword. However, some key elements from ToTK contradict this.
- Hylians are said to have already lived on the surface before Demise conquered their homeland and they escaped to Skyloft, before Skyward Sword. However, TotKdorf refers to Sonia as a Hyrulean, not a Hylian. It's strange he specifically calls her that instead of the race that repopulated the surface after Skyward Sword. Source: Memory #6
- Rauru has never heard of Link. He only learns of Link from Zelda. If he came to power after Skyward Sword takes place, you'd think a godlike being who descended from the sky would know of the hero of Skyloft. Source: Memory #8
- At the end of Skyward Sword, Demise curses the "blood of the goddess, and the spirit of the hero". Zelda promises that she and Link will reincarnate to stop him every time. This is the beginning of Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link being reincarnated across the eons, locked in an eternal battle. However, TotKdorf comes to power in an era without Link. One might argue Sonia has the blood of the goddess and descends from Skyward!Zelda, or that technically Wild!Zelda was teleported to that era, but there is no Link equivalent in this period. There is no spirit of the hero.
The reign of Rauru predates the Sky Era, and even the Era of the Goddess Hylia. The kingdom established in The Era of Prosperity is a successor kingdom ruled by his descendants.
Across the franchise, Hylians are said to be close to the gods (Source: ALttP, TP, probably more). The Zonai are said to be descendants of the gods. (Source: Memory #14). It is possible that the intermarrying of the Zonai and native Hyruleans create the race of Hylians.
We know that the Calamity is a recurring event in Hyrule's history. (Source: Symin in the quest Teach Me a Lesson). It is possible that Demise was the first Calamity, born from the overflowing Malice of the sealed ToTKdorf, just as Calamity Ganon was born from the same source 10,000 years before BotW.
So, after the Imprisoning War with Rauru and the secret stone sages...
- Eventually, the intermarrying of Zonai and Hyrulean natives will create Hylians, who will populate the surface. The goddess Hylia will live among them. This time will be known as the Era of the Goddess Hylia.
- Eventually, TotKdorf sealed under Hyrule will leak enough Malice to birth Demise of the demon tribe. He will conquer the surface, and Hylians will escape to Skyloft. This is the first Calamity, and begins the Sky Era.
- Eventually, Hylia will reincarnate as Zelda of Skyloft, a Hylian descended from Rauru and Sonia. Link will be born a Hylian of Skyloft as well. Together they will forge the Master Sword and save Skyloft and the surface from Demise. Demise will curse the blood of the goddess, and the spirit of the hero. Zelda will promise she and Link will reincarnate to stop him every time.
Eventually, in at least one timeline, the Calamity degenerates into the bestial Calamity Ganon. The Shiekah create Divine Beasts and Guardians to stop it. And the rest, you already know.
In short: World's Creation -> Zonai descend to earth -> Rauru establishes Hyrule -> Demise invades -> Skyward Sword -> Ocarina of Time -> ??? -> Creation of Divine Beasts -> BotW -> TotK
Of course, this theory isn't perfect. Ganondorf did rise to power without a Link existing in at least one game before - Wind Waker. Demise's curse is not specific to Zelda and Link in the original Japanese script. TotKdorf could've called Sonia a Hyrulean simply because that's her nationality. Hyrule Historia already has the kingdom established after Skyward Sword takes place, and maybe that hasn't changed. Rauru warns TotKdorf of Link and "the sword that seals the darkness", and we don't see Zelda mention the Master Sword to him, so maybe he did know of the Hero of Sky, just not his name. Maybe Rauru established this version of Hyrule way after all the other games, when the previous Hyrule was lost to time. Maybe BotW is a reboot!
No timeline posited in this franchise is perfect - not even the official one. Least of all mine!
Either way, I hope the evidence I've gathered here makes sense enough, for you to consider the possibility of the placement of Rauru's kingship in the ever-messier timeline of The Legend of Zelda.
2023.05.29 13:23 Deady1 [TotK] A Theory on the Placement of Rauru's Reign in the Timeline
Disclaimer! This post assumes BotW and TotK happen in the timeline in Hyrule Historia. This post does not reference the Capcom published games, or any manga. Spoilers for the Tears of the Kingdom.
Many people believe that the reign of Rauru takes place during the Era of Prosperity, long after the events of Skyward Sword. However, some key elements from ToTK contradict this.
The reign of Rauru predates the Sky Era, and even the Era of the Goddess Hylia. The kingdom established in The Era of Prosperity is a successor kingdom ruled by his descendants.
Across the franchise, Hylians are said to be close to the gods (Source: ALttP, TP, probably more). The Zonai are said to be descendants of the gods. (Source: Memory #14). It is possible that the intermarrying of the Zonai and native Hyruleans create the race of Hylians.
We know that the Calamity is a recurring event in Hyrule's history. (Source: Symin in the quest Teach Me a Lesson). It is possible that Demise was the first Calamity, born from the overflowing Malice of the sealed ToTKdorf, just as Calamity Ganon was born from the same source 10,000 years before BotW.
So, after the Imprisoning War with Rauru and the secret stone sages...
Eventually, in at least one timeline, the Calamity degenerates into the bestial Calamity Ganon. The Shiekah create Divine Beasts and Guardians to stop it. And the rest, you already know.
In short: World's Creation -> Zonai descend to earth -> Rauru establishes Hyrule -> Demise invades -> Skyward Sword -> Ocarina of Time -> ??? -> Creation of Divine Beasts -> BotW -> TotK
I also have a minor piece of evidence, but it's not concrete. In the tutorial, Rauru says his kingdom was on the surface. This implies the sky islands didn't exist during the Zonai Era. It is possible that the sky islands came to be when Hylia evacuated the surface-dwellers from the demon tribe, creating Skyloft and all the sky islands in TotK, long after the time of Rauru. (EDIT: the origins of the sky islands is revealed in a quest in TotK)
Of course, this theory isn't perfect. Ganondorf did rise to power without a Link existing in at least one game before - Wind Waker. Demise's curse is not specific to Zelda and Link in the original Japanese script. TotKdorf could've called Sonia a Hyrulean simply because that's her nationality. Hyrule Historia already has the kingdom established after Skyward Sword takes place, and maybe that hasn't changed. Rauru warns TotKdorf of Link and "the sword that seals the darkness", and we don't see Zelda mention the Master Sword to him, so maybe he did know of the Hero of Sky, just not his name. Maybe Rauru established this version of Hyrule way after all the other games, when the previous Hyrule was lost to time. Maybe BotW is a reboot!
No timeline posited in this franchise is perfect - not even the official one. Least of all mine!
Either way, I hope the evidence I've gathered here makes sense enough, for you to consider the possibility of the placement of Rauru's kingship in the ever-messier timeline of The Legend of Zelda.
submitted by Deady1 to zelda [link] [comments]
Many people believe that the reign of Rauru takes place during the Era of Prosperity, long after the events of Skyward Sword. However, some key elements from ToTK contradict this.
- Hylians are said to have already lived on the surface before Demise conquered their homeland and they escaped to Skyloft, before Skyward Sword. However, TotKdorf refers to Sonia as a Hyrulean, not a Hylian. It's strange he specifically calls her that instead of the race that repopulated the surface after Skyward Sword. Source: Memory #6
- Rauru has never heard of Link. He only learns of Link from Zelda. If he came to power after Skyward Sword takes place, you'd think a godlike being who descended from the sky would know of the hero of Skyloft. Source: Memory #8
- At the end of Skyward Sword, Demise curses the "blood of the goddess, and the spirit of the hero". Zelda promises that she and Link will reincarnate to stop him every time. This is the beginning of Ganondorf, Zelda, and Link being reincarnated across the eons, locked in an eternal battle. However, TotKdorf comes to power in an era without Link. One might argue Sonia has the blood of the goddess and descends from Skyward!Zelda, or that technically Wild!Zelda was teleported to that era, but there is no Link equivalent in this period. There is no spirit of the hero.
The reign of Rauru predates the Sky Era, and even the Era of the Goddess Hylia. The kingdom established in The Era of Prosperity is a successor kingdom ruled by his descendants.
Across the franchise, Hylians are said to be close to the gods (Source: ALttP, TP, probably more). The Zonai are said to be descendants of the gods. (Source: Memory #14). It is possible that the intermarrying of the Zonai and native Hyruleans create the race of Hylians.
We know that the Calamity is a recurring event in Hyrule's history. (Source: Symin in the quest Teach Me a Lesson). It is possible that Demise was the first Calamity, born from the overflowing Malice of the sealed ToTKdorf, just as Calamity Ganon was born from the same source 10,000 years before BotW.
So, after the Imprisoning War with Rauru and the secret stone sages...
- Eventually, the intermarrying of Zonai and Hyrulean natives will create Hylians, who will populate the surface. The goddess Hylia will live among them. This time will be known as the Era of the Goddess Hylia.
- Eventually, TotKdorf sealed under Hyrule will leak enough Malice to birth Demise of the demon tribe. He will conquer the surface, and Hylians will escape to Skyloft. This is the first Calamity, and begins the Sky Era.
- Eventually, Hylia will reincarnate as Zelda of Skyloft, a Hylian descended from Rauru and Sonia. Link will be born a Hylian of Skyloft as well. Together they will forge the Master Sword and save Skyloft and the surface from Demise. Demise will curse the blood of the goddess, and the spirit of the hero. Zelda will promise she and Link will reincarnate to stop him every time.
Eventually, in at least one timeline, the Calamity degenerates into the bestial Calamity Ganon. The Shiekah create Divine Beasts and Guardians to stop it. And the rest, you already know.
In short: World's Creation -> Zonai descend to earth -> Rauru establishes Hyrule -> Demise invades -> Skyward Sword -> Ocarina of Time -> ??? -> Creation of Divine Beasts -> BotW -> TotK
Of course, this theory isn't perfect. Ganondorf did rise to power without a Link existing in at least one game before - Wind Waker. Demise's curse is not specific to Zelda and Link in the original Japanese script. TotKdorf could've called Sonia a Hyrulean simply because that's her nationality. Hyrule Historia already has the kingdom established after Skyward Sword takes place, and maybe that hasn't changed. Rauru warns TotKdorf of Link and "the sword that seals the darkness", and we don't see Zelda mention the Master Sword to him, so maybe he did know of the Hero of Sky, just not his name. Maybe Rauru established this version of Hyrule way after all the other games, when the previous Hyrule was lost to time. Maybe BotW is a reboot!
No timeline posited in this franchise is perfect - not even the official one. Least of all mine!
Either way, I hope the evidence I've gathered here makes sense enough, for you to consider the possibility of the placement of Rauru's kingship in the ever-messier timeline of The Legend of Zelda.
2023.05.29 12:27 mardyoldspinster I have 110 samples, yet only one nose (an indie tragicomedy)
 | submitted by mardyoldspinster to Indiemakeupandmore [link] [comments] |
2023.05.29 08:35 PrasadBharadhwaj శ్రీ మదగ్ని మహాపురాణము - 224 / Agni Maha Purana - 224
 | submitted by PrasadBharadhwaj to ChaitanyaVijnanam [link] [comments] https://preview.redd.it/wxsq0vudtp2b1.jpg?width=729&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62c636dcc2f89f9f5b8bfe7f5addcb468b9cb8fb 🌹. శ్రీ మదగ్ని మహాపురాణము - 224 / Agni Maha Purana - 224 🌹 ✍️. పుల్లెల శ్రీరామచంద్రుడు, 📚. ప్రసాద్ భరద్వాజ శ్రీ గణేశాయ నమః ఓం నమో భగవతే వాసుదేవాయ. ప్రథమ సంపుటము, అధ్యాయము - 65 🌻. సభాగృహ స్థాపనము. - 3 🌻 ''ఓం వసిష్ఠునిచే పాలింపబడిన ఓ నందా! ధనసంతానాదుల నొసగి నా ఆనందమును వృద్ధిపొందిపుము. ప్రజలకువిజయము నిచ్చు భార్గవనందినియైన జయా! నన్ను ధనసంపదలతో ఆనందింపచేయుము, అంగిరసుని పుత్రియైన ఓ పూర్ణా! నా మనోరథమునలు ఈడేర్పుము. నన్ను పరిపూర్ణకాముని చేయుము, కాశ్యపకుమారి యైన భద్రా! నా బుద్ధిని కల్యాణమయము చేయుము. అందరికిని ఆనందము నిచ్చు వసిష్ఠనందిని యైన నందా ! నీవు సమస్తబీజములతో, ఓషధులతో కూడి, సకలరత్నౌషధి పూర్ణురాలవై ఈ సుందర భవనమునందు ఆనలదపూర్వకముగ నివసింపుము. కశ్యప్రజాపతిపుత్రివైన ఓ భద్రా ! నీవు సర్వవిధముల సుందర మైనదానవు, మహత్త్వము కలదానవు. సౌభాగ్యశాలినివి. ఉత్తమవ్రతమును పాలించుదానవు. నా ఇంటిలో ఆనందపూర్వకముగ నివసింపుము. దేవి! భార్గవీ! జయా! సర్వశ్రేష్ఠులైన ఆచార్యులు నిన్ను పూజించిరి. చందనపుష్పమాలాలంకృతురాల వైన నీవు ప్రపంచమునందలి సకలైశ్వర్యములను ఇచ్చుదానవు. నా గృహమునందు ఆనందపూర్వకముగ విహరింపుము. అంగిరసుని పుత్రి వైన పూర్ణా! నీవు అవ్యక్తరూపిణివి. ఓ ఇష్టకాదేవీ! నీవు నాకు అభిష్టవస్తువుల నిమ్ము. నా ఇంటిలో ఉండు మని కోరుచున్నాను. నీవు దేశప్రభువును గ్రామనగర ప్రభువులను, గృహప్రభువును అనుగ్రహించుదానవు. నా గృహమునందు జన-ధన-గజ-అశ్వ-గో-మహిష్యాదివృద్ధి కలుగు నట్లు చేయుము. శ్రీ అగ్నిమహాపురాణమునందు సభాగృహస్థాపన మను అరువదియైదవ అధ్యాయము సమాప్తము. సశేషం.... 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 Agni Maha Purana - 224 🌹 ✍️ N. Gangadharan 📚. Prasad Bharadwaj Chapter 65 🌻The building of pavilions in front of the temples (sabhā-sthāpana) - 3 🌻 16-23. “Oṃ, O Mother Earth! related to Vasiṣṭha! you rejoice with the Vasus (semi-divine beings) and people. Glory be to the daughter of Bhārgava[2] (Śukra the preceptor of demons), the giver of success to her offsprings. The accomplished goddess! relative of Aṅgiras! You grant me my heart’s desire. O auspicious one! related to (sage) Kaśyapa! make my intellect good. Endowed with all herbs! Surrounded by all gems and herbs! Shining one Joyous one! related to Vasiṣṭha! May you amuse here! Daughter of Prajāpati (Brahman)! O Goddess! Handsome in all parts! Noble-minded! Beautiful one! The strict observer of disciplines! One who is related to Kaśyapa! May you enjoy in this house! O Adored by the great preceptors! Adorned with perfumes and garlands! Bestower of prosperity! O Goddess! Daughter of Bhārgava! May you amuse in this house! The primordial element! The inexplicable one! Accomplished! O daughter of sage Aṅgiras! O Goddess of bricks! I establish you. You confer on me my desires! One surrounded by the lords of regions, place and the house! You be furtherer of men, wealth, elephant, horse and cow. Continues.... 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 |
2023.05.29 00:45 PrasadBharadhwaj 🌹 29, MAY 2023 MONDAY ALL MESSAGES సోమవారం, ఇందు వాసర సందేశాలు 🌹
 | 🍀🌹 29, MAY 2023 MONDAY ALL MESSAGES సోమవారం, ఇందు వాసర సందేశాలు 🌹🍀 submitted by PrasadBharadhwaj to u/PrasadBharadhwaj [link] [comments] 1) 🌹 29, MAY 2023 MONDAY సోమవారం, ఇందు వాసరే, నిత్య పంచాంగము Daily Panchangam🌹 2) 🌹. శ్రీమద్భగవద్గీత - 377 / Bhagavad-Gita - 377 🌹 🌴10వ అధ్యాయము - విభూతి యోగం - 05 / Chapter 10 - Vibhuti Yoga - 05 🌴 4) 🌹. శ్రీ మదగ్ని మహాపురాణము - 224 / Agni Maha Purana - 224 🌹 . సభాగృహ స్థాపనము. - 3 / The building of pavilions in front of the temples (sabhā-sthāpana) - 3 🌻 4) 🌹. నిత్య ప్రజ్ఞా సందేశములు - 089 / DAILY WISDOM - 089 🌹 🌻 29. ధర్మశాస్త్రం / 29. The Law of Dharma 🌻 5) 🌹. నిర్మల ధ్యానాలు - ఓషో - 354 🌹 6) 🌹. శివ సూత్రములు - 91 / Siva Sutras - 91 🌹 🌻 2-05. విద్యాసముత్థానే స్వభావికే ఖేచరీ శివావస్తా - 3 / 2-05. vidyāsamutthāne svābhāvike khecarī śivāvasthā - 3 🌻 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 https://preview.redd.it/v4jhfi00in2b1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=cdd82706c77fa497be18431741d8dad83e6cd6e4 *🌹 29, మే, May 2023 పంచాగము - Panchagam 🌹\* *శుభ సోమవారం, Monday, ఇందు వాసరే\* *మనందరికి ఈ రోజు కాలము, ప్రకృతి అనుకూలించాలి అని పరమాత్మని స్మరిస్తూ - ప్రసాద్ భరద్వాజ\* *🌻. పండుగలు మరియు పర్వదినాలు : మహేశ నవమి, Mahesh Navami🌻\* *🍀. శ్రీ శివ సహస్రనామ స్తోత్రం - 34 🍀\* *67. ఆశ్రమస్థః క్రియావస్థో విశ్వకర్మమతిర్వరః విశాల శాఖస్తామ్రోష్ఠో హ్యంబుజాలః సునిశ్చలః\* *68. కపిలః కపిశః శుక్లః ఆయుశ్చైవ పరోఽపరః గంధర్వో హ్యదితిస్తార్క్ష్యః సువిజ్ఞేయః సుశారదః\* 🌻 🌻 🌻 🌻 🌻 *🍀. నేటి సూక్తి : ఏకత్వానంద లీల - ఏకత్వం, ఆనందం. ఇవి రెండూ పరమసత్యపు ముఖ్య లక్షణాలు. ఏకత్వము, ఆనందముల సహజశక్తియే ప్రేమ. కనుక, ఏకత్వానంద లీలా విశేషములకు ప్రేమ ఏడుగడ కావడం అవసరం. ఈ లీలా విశేషములు ఒకే విధమైనవి గాక, అనేక విధములైనవి కావచ్చు. 🍀\* 🌷🌷🌷🌷🌷 విక్రమ: 2080 నల, శఖ: 1945 శోభన కలియుగాబ్ది : 5124, శోభకృత్, గ్రీష్మ ఋతువు, ఉత్తరాయణం, జ్యేష్ఠ మాసం తిథి: శుక్ల-నవమి 11:50:39 వరకు తదుపరి శుక్ల-దశమి నక్షత్రం: ఉత్తర ఫల్గుణి 28:29:08 వరకు తదుపరి హస్త యోగం: వజ్ర 21:01:17 వరకు తదుపరి సిధ్ధి కరణం: కౌలవ 11:46:39 వరకు వర్జ్యం: 10:11:24 - 11:55:56 దుర్ముహూర్తం: 12:39:37 - 13:31:56 మరియు 15:16:33 - 16:08:51 రాహు కాలం: 07:19:14 - 08:57:19 గుళిక కాలం: 13:51:33 - 15:29:37 యమ గండం: 10:35:23 - 12:13:28 అభిజిత్ ముహూర్తం: 11:47 - 12:39 అమృత కాలం: 20:38:36 - 22:23:08 సూర్యోదయం: 05:41:10 సూర్యాస్తమయం: 18:45:47 చంద్రోదయం: 13:37:06 చంద్రాస్తమయం: 01:30:38 సూర్య సంచార రాశి: వృషభం చంద్ర సంచార రాశి: సింహం యోగాలు: శ్రీవత్స యోగం - ధన లాభం , సర్వ సౌఖ్యం 28:29:08 వరకు తదుపరి వజ్ర యోగం - ఫల ప్రాప్తి దిశ శూల: తూర్పు ✍️. శ్రీ వక్కంతం చంద్రమౌళి 🌻 🌻 🌻 🌻 🌻 *🍀. నిత్య ప్రార్థన 🍀\* *వక్రతుండ మహాకాయ సూర్యకోటి సమప్రభ\* *నిర్విఘ్నంకురుమేదేవ సర్వకార్యేషు సర్వదా\* *యశ్శివో నామ రూపాభ్యాం యాదేవీ సర్వ మంగళా\* *తయో సంస్మరణాత్పుంసాం సర్వతో జయ మంగళం\* *తదేవ లగ్నం సుదినం తదేవ తారాబలం చంద్రబలం తదేవ\* *విద్యాబలం దైవబలం తదేవ లక్ష్మీపతే తేంఘ్రి యుగం స్మరామి.\* 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 https://preview.redd.it/sjsto7s0in2b1.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=ee599506ed7c238588e7e65e1d5b61719e22e0c4 *🌹. శ్రీమద్భగవద్గీత - 377 / Bhagavad-Gita - 377 🌹\* *✍️. శ్రీ ప్రభుపాద, 📚. ప్రసాద్ భరద్వాజ\* *🌴. 10వ అధ్యాయము - విభూతి యోగం - 05 🌴\* *05. అహింసా సమతా తుష్టిస్తపో దానం యశోయశః \* *భవన్తి భావా భూతానాం మత్త ఏవ పృథగ్విధా: \* 🌷. తాత్పర్యం : *అహింస, సమత్వము, సంతుష్టి, తపస్సు, దానము, యశస్సు, అపకీర్తి మున్నగు జీవుల వివిధగుణములు నా చేతనే సృష్టించబడినవి.\* 🌷. భాష్యము : *జీవుల శుభాశుభములైన వివధ గుణములన్నియును శ్రీకృష్ణుని చేతనే సృష్టింపబడినవి. ఆ గుణములే ఇచ్చట వివరింపబడినవి. ఓర్పు మరియు క్షమాగుణములను (క్షమ) అలవరచుకొని ఇతరుల సాధారణ అపరాధముల యెడ ఓర్పును కలిగి వారిని క్షమింపవలెను. ఇతరుల లాభము కొరకు వాస్తవములను ఉన్నవియున్నట్లుగా తెలియజేయుటయే సత్యమనుదాని భావము. వాస్తవములనెన్నడును తప్పుగా ప్రదర్శించరాదు.\* *ఇతరులకు నచ్చునదైనప్పుడే సత్యమును పలుకుట సాంఘికమర్యాదయైనను వాస్తవమునకు అది సత్యసంధత కానేరదు. కావున వాస్తవములను సర్వులు అవగాహన చేసికొను రీతిలో సత్యమును నిక్కచ్చిగా పలుకవలెను. దొంగను దొంగయని పలికి జనులను సావధానపరచుటయే సత్యము కాగలదు. సత్యము కొన్నిమార్లు రుచింపకపోయినను ఎవ్వరును దానిని పలుకుట యందు జంకును కలిగియుండరాదు. ఇతరుల లాభము కొరకు వాస్తవములను ఉన్నవియున్నట్లుగా ప్రదర్శించవలెనని సత్యసంధత కోరును. సత్యమునకు ఒసగబడు నిర్వచనమిదియే.\* 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 *🌹 Bhagavad-Gita as It is - 377 🌹\* *✍️ Sri Prabhupada, 📚 Prasad Bharadwaj\* *🌴 Chapter 10 - Vibhuti Yoga - 05 🌴\* *05. ahiṁsā samatā tuṣṭis tapo dānaṁ yaśo ’yaśaḥ\* *bhavanti bhāvā bhūtānāṁ matta eva pṛthag-vidhāḥ\* 🌷 Translation : *Nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy – all these various qualities of living beings are created by Me alone.\* 🌹 Purport : *The different qualities of living entities, be they good or bad, are all created by Kṛṣṇa, and they are described here. Asammoha, freedom from doubt and delusion, can be achieved when one is not hesitant and when he understands the transcendental philosophy. Slowly but surely he becomes free from bewilderment. Nothing should be accepted blindly; everything should be accepted with care and with caution. Kṣamā, tolerance and forgiveness, should be practiced; one should be tolerant and excuse the minor offenses of others. Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are, for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented.\* 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 https://preview.redd.it/nlyj58g1in2b1.png?width=729&format=png&auto=webp&s=fd70cedf20d9ed6bc3eaf526bca65e2449734ccc *🌹. శ్రీ మదగ్ని మహాపురాణము - 224 / Agni Maha Purana - 224 🌹\* *✍️. పుల్లెల శ్రీరామచంద్రుడు, 📚. ప్రసాద్ భరద్వాజ\* *శ్రీ గణేశాయ నమః ఓం నమో భగవతే వాసుదేవాయ.\* *ప్రథమ సంపుటము, అధ్యాయము - 65\* *🌻. సభాగృహ స్థాపనము. - 3 🌻\* *''ఓం వసిష్ఠునిచే పాలింపబడిన ఓ నందా! ధనసంతానాదుల నొసగి నా ఆనందమును వృద్ధిపొందిపుము. ప్రజలకువిజయము నిచ్చు భార్గవనందినియైన జయా! నన్ను ధనసంపదలతో ఆనందింపచేయుము, అంగిరసుని పుత్రియైన ఓ పూర్ణా! నా మనోరథమునలు ఈడేర్పుము. నన్ను పరిపూర్ణకాముని చేయుము, కాశ్యపకుమారి యైన భద్రా! నా బుద్ధిని కల్యాణమయము చేయుము. అందరికిని ఆనందము నిచ్చు వసిష్ఠనందిని యైన నందా ! నీవు సమస్తబీజములతో, ఓషధులతో కూడి, సకలరత్నౌషధి పూర్ణురాలవై ఈ సుందర భవనమునందు ఆనలదపూర్వకముగ నివసింపుము.\* *కశ్యప్రజాపతిపుత్రివైన ఓ భద్రా ! నీవు సర్వవిధముల సుందర మైనదానవు, మహత్త్వము కలదానవు. సౌభాగ్యశాలినివి. ఉత్తమవ్రతమును పాలించుదానవు. నా ఇంటిలో ఆనందపూర్వకముగ నివసింపుము. దేవి! భార్గవీ! జయా! సర్వశ్రేష్ఠులైన ఆచార్యులు నిన్ను పూజించిరి. చందనపుష్పమాలాలంకృతురాల వైన నీవు ప్రపంచమునందలి సకలైశ్వర్యములను ఇచ్చుదానవు. నా గృహమునందు ఆనందపూర్వకముగ విహరింపుము. అంగిరసుని పుత్రి వైన పూర్ణా! నీవు అవ్యక్తరూపిణివి. ఓ ఇష్టకాదేవీ! నీవు నాకు అభిష్టవస్తువుల నిమ్ము. నా ఇంటిలో ఉండు మని కోరుచున్నాను. నీవు దేశప్రభువును గ్రామనగర ప్రభువులను, గృహప్రభువును అనుగ్రహించుదానవు. నా గృహమునందు జన-ధన-గజ-అశ్వ-గో-మహిష్యాదివృద్ధి కలుగు నట్లు చేయుము.\* *శ్రీ అగ్నిమహాపురాణమునందు సభాగృహస్థాపన మను అరువదియైదవ అధ్యాయము సమాప్తము.\* సశేషం.... 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 *🌹 Agni Maha Purana - 224 🌹\* *✍️ N. Gangadharan 📚. Prasad Bharadwaj \* *Chapter 65\* *🌻The building of pavilions in front of the temples (sabhā-sthāpana) - 3 🌻\* 16-23. “Oṃ, O Mother Earth! related to Vasiṣṭha! you rejoice with the Vasus (semi-divine beings) and people. Glory be to the daughter of Bhārgava[2] (Śukra the preceptor of demons), the giver of success to her offsprings. The accomplished goddess! relative of Aṅgiras! You grant me my heart’s desire. O auspicious one! related to (sage) Kaśyapa! make my intellect good. Endowed with all herbs! Surrounded by all gems and herbs! Shining one Joyous one! related to Vasiṣṭha! May you amuse here! Daughter of Prajāpati (Brahman)! O Goddess! Handsome in all parts! Noble-minded! Beautiful one! The strict observer of disciplines! One who is related to Kaśyapa! May you enjoy in this house! O Adored by the great preceptors! Adorned with perfumes and garlands! Bestower of prosperity! O Goddess! Daughter of Bhārgava! May you amuse in this house! The primordial element! The inexplicable one! Accomplished! O daughter of sage Aṅgiras! O Goddess of bricks! I establish you. You confer on me my desires! One surrounded by the lords of regions, place and the house! You be furtherer of men, wealth, elephant, horse and cow. Continues.... 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 https://preview.redd.it/egsseu73in2b1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=520d9c5640567582121a6861781a2d2b649c7309 https://preview.redd.it/cadiymd2in2b1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=0e8a3324780ebb5f9eddc13181684f8b3f4d0487 *🌹. నిత్య ప్రజ్ఞా సందేశములు - 89 / DAILY WISDOM - 89 🌹\* *🍀 📖. బృహదారణ్యక ఉపనిషత్తు నుండి 🍀\* *✍️. ప్రసాద్ భరద్వాజ\* *🌻 29. ధర్మశాస్త్రం 🌻\* *దేవుని చట్టం మరియు మనిషి యొక్క చట్టం అని రెండు చట్టాలు లేవు. విశ్వ నియమం మరియు వ్యక్తిగత నియమాలు అని రెండు వేరు వేరు నియమాలు లేవు. అక్కడ అలాంటిదేమీ లేదు. 'నా చట్టం' లేదా 'మీ చట్టం' వంటివి ఉనికిలో లేవు. అన్ని చోట్లా, సాకార, నిరాకార సృష్టిలో అన్ని సృష్టిలో, అన్ని రంగాలలో ఒకే ఒక నియమం ఉంది. ఖగోళ జీవులకు, మానవులకు మరియు అమానవీయ జీవులకు ఒకే చట్టం ఉంది. ప్రతి ఒక్కరూ ఒకే నిర్ణయాత్మకమైన సూత్రం ద్వారా నియంత్రించబడతారు.\* *దాన్నే ధర్మం అంటారు. ఇది భౌతిక స్థాయిలో గురుత్వాకర్షణగా పనిచేస్తుంది; ఇది మానసిక స్థాయిలో ప్రేమగా పనిచేస్తుంది; ఇది రసాయన స్థాయిలో రసాయనాలుగా పనిచేస్తుంది మరియు ఇది మన మానసిక స్థాయి, జ్ఞానం మరియు ఆలోచన స్థాయిలలో ఆలోచన యొక్క ఏకీకరణగా పనిచేస్తుంది. ఇది అంతిమంగా విషయం మరియు వస్తువు మధ్య అనుసంధానంగా పనిచేస్తుంది. దీని కారణంగా జ్ఞానం ఉంటుంది.\* *కొనసాగుతుంది...\* 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 *🌹 DAILY WISDOM - 89 🌹\* *🍀 📖 The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 🍀\* 📝 Swami Krishnananda 📚. Prasad Bharadwaj *🌻 29. The Law of Dharma 🌻\* *There are no two laws—God’s law and man’s law; universal law and individual law. No such thing is there. Such thing as ‘my law’ or ‘your law’ does not exist. There is only one law operating everywhere, in all creation, visible or invisible, in all realms of being. The same law is there for the celestials, the humans and the subhuman creatures. Everyone is controlled by a single principle of ordinance.\* *That is called dharma. It operates as gravitation in the physical level; it operates as love in the psychological level; it operates as chemicals in the chemical level and it operates as integration of thought in our mental level, the level of cognition and thinking. It ultimately operates as the connecting link between the subject and the object, on account of which there is knowledge of anything at all.\* *Continues...\* 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 https://preview.redd.it/77ggvt44in2b1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=dec8018776dc2216ae0611542574093f89288593 *🌹. నిర్మల ధ్యానాలు - ఓషో - 354 🌹\* *✍️. సౌభాగ్య 📚. ప్రసాద్ భరద్వాజ\* *🍀. మనిషికీ దైవత్వానికీ మధ్య వున్న తేడా దైవత్వంలో పూర్తి చైతన్యం వుంటుంది. మనిషి కొద్దిగా చేతనలో వుంటాడు. 🍀\* *మనిషికీ జంతువుకీ మధ్య వున్న తేడా జంతువు పూర్తి అచేతనావస్థలో వుంటుంది. మనిషి కొద్దిగా చేతనలో వుంటాడు. మనిషికీ దైవత్వానికీ మధ్య వున్న తేడా దైవత్వంలో పూర్తి చైతన్యం వుంటుంది. మనిషి ఈ రెంటికీ మధ్యలో వుంటాడు. కేవల జంతు సంబంధ అనేతనత్వానికి కేవల దైవసంబంధ చైతన్యానికి మధ్య వుంటాడు. వ్యక్తి ముందుకు వెళ్ళొచ్చు. వెనక్కి జారవచ్చు. అది అతని మీద ఆధారపడి వుంటుంది.\* *సశేషం ...\* 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 https://preview.redd.it/f24ob2q4in2b1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=40efd69ce69511f7dd7365172a8a40102b2021eb *🌹. శివ సూత్రములు - 091 / Siva Sutras - 091 🌹\* *🍀. శివ ఆగమ తత్వశాస్త్రం యొక్క సూత్రములు 🍀\* *2వ భాగం - శక్తోపాయ\* *✍️. ప్రసాద్ భరధ్వాజ\* *🌻 2-05. విద్యాసముత్థానే స్వభావికే ఖేచరీ శివావస్తా - 3 🌻\* *🌴. భగవంతుని చైతన్యం యొక్క స్వచ్ఛమైన జ్ఞానం అప్రయత్నంగా పెరుగుతుంది. ఈ శివ స్థితి ఖేచరీ స్థితితో ఒకటిగా గ్రహించ బడుతుంది. 🌴\* *ఖేచరీ అనేది వామేశ్వరి అని పిలువబడే దైవిక శక్తిలో ఒక భాగం. ఆమె పరమశివుడు లేదా పరమశివుని పరమ చైతన్యం నుండి విశ్వం ఉద్భవించేలా చేస్తుంది కాబట్టి ఆమెను వామేశ్వరి అని పిలుస్తారు. పరమశివుని మించినది లేదు. అంతకు మించినది ఏదీ లేదు కాబట్టి ఏదైనా ఆధ్యాత్మిక ఎదుగుదల ఈ స్థాయికి మాత్రమే చేరుకోగలదు. వామేశ్వరి, పరమశివునితో సమానంగా ఉనికిలో ఉండడం వల్ల, శివ స్వభావాన్ని భిన్నమైన దృక్కోణంలో వెల్లడిస్తుంది. శివుని యొక్క సత్య స్వరూపం మాయ ఆమె స్వభావం కావడం చేత ఆమె ద్వారా బహిర్గతం కాలేదు. శక్తి శివుని కంటే తక్కువ కాదు, ఎక్కువా కాదని అర్థం చేసుకోవడం చాలా ముఖ్యం. అయితే అదే సమయంలో, శివుడు శక్తి లేకుండా ఉండగలడని అర్థం చేసుకోవాలి, కానీ ఆమె లేకుండా అతను జడత్వం పొందుతాడు. అయితే, శక్తి, శివుడు లేకుండా ఉనికిలో ఉండదు. ఈ రెండూ ఉంటే తప్ప సృష్టి జరగదు. ఇది సృష్టి యొక్క ప్రాథమిక సూత్రం.\* *కొనసాగుతుంది...\* 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 *🌹 Siva Sutras - 091 🌹\* *🍀Aphorisms of philosophy of Shiva āgama 🍀\* Part 2 - Śāktopāya. *✍️. Acharya Ravi Sarma, 📚. Prasad Bharadwaj\* *🌻 2-05. vidyāsamutthāne svābhāvike khecarī śivāvasthā - 3 🌻\* *🌴. The pure knowledge of God consciousness effortlessly rises and this state of Śiva is realized as one with the state of khecarī. 🌴\* *Khecarī is a part of divine Śaktī known as Vāmeśvarī. She is called Vāmeśvarī because She causes the universe to emerge from the Supreme consciousness of Parā-Śiva or Paramaśiva. There is nothing beyond Paramaśiva. Any spiritual aspirant can reach only up to this level as there is nothing beyond That. Vāmeśvarī, by incessantly co-existing with Paramaśiva, reveals the nature of Śiva in a different perspective. The essential or true nature Śiva is not revealed by Her due to Her own inherent nature of māyā. It is important to understand that Śaktī is neither inferior nor superior to Śiva. But at the same time, it is to be understood that Śiva can exist without Śaktī, but He becomes inert without Her, whereas, Śaktī, cannot exist without Śiva. Unless both of them are present, creation cannot happen. This is the fundamental principle of creation.\* *Continues...\* 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹🍀🌹 |
2023.05.28 15:10 linkenski [TotK] The thing that doesn't cut it for me, with Open Air storytelling
The lack of monomythic structure.
I'm not disputing non-linearity when I say that games since ALttP and prior to BotW were structured as they were for a reason. But they had what BotW and TotK don't: The narrative structure of a Hero's Journey.
They build out a story from the tutorial area and first dungeon as their inciting incident. A bit of prologue to set up the world, good guys and bad guys and a goal, the call to adventure.
Next, they use the player's freedom to tell us the part of a story when you progress from relative normality into challenge, as obstacles block what must be done to achieve the goal, challenging Link as the protagonist, or rather you.
Then, in the Abyss of Death and Rebirth Agahnim shows up to cast your presumputous award into doubt as he opens the gates to the Dark World and throws Link along into it. Or maybe, Zant shows up and hurts Midna, causing Zelda to sacrifice herself. Or maybe, you do rescue your sister, Aryll, but Ganondorf reveals his larger plot, and the King of Red Lions decides to throw "destiny" upon Link once again. No matter which, they moved the goal posts and brings about changes in the game's world and the player's objectives as they reach their coming of transformation.
In the transformative act 2, the player grows into a darker world, and darker themes. Here the challenges are not just practical but mental. Link must accept that he is now an adult in a darkened world, or that there is a dark world, or that farmboy-life must be put off even longer because the Twilight interferences are here to stay until we do something! In this part of a Zelda game the dungeons typically shifted in tone. The side quest narratives became more "real" and you, the player, enter more mechanically complicated dungeons. Ocarina of Time introduces man made temples with small keys opening doors. ALttP had warping between two world to find the entrances. Wind Waker turned their final dungeons into co-op escort events where Link had to not only explore the dungeon, but protect an important sage.
It all leads into the final 3rd act, in a confrontation, typically with Ganondorf, where the gift of the goddess is bestowed by Zelda to Link, and Link uses his learned experience to seal away evil, and complete the true objective. You, the player, use your own experience and acquired items to go through Ganon's tower and fight a final series of bosses, to witness the culmination of the plot.
Breath of the Wild and TotK don't do this. They start you with a brief mystery prologue that sets up a main goal. Then they let you do anything and even if try to emulate the past structure through the freedom, by basically following game hints that tell you where to go first, you end up with a much more shortlived and basic narrative.
The entirety of BotW is basically "Free the Divine Beasts" and the entirety of TotK is "Find Zelda. Where could she be?"
There is no turning point in these stories that ramp up the stakes from their early premise. They start one way, and stay one way, and then the ending suddenly happens.
It's hard to fault Nintendo for this. I understand that this is the tradeoff to having an unpredictable player behavior. You have to make the story flexible, and make the player feel like nothing is caused by a linear decision by developers.
There is nothing "wrong" about not using monomyth, but I think that a lot of people are picking up on there being a lack of "something" in Open Air Zelda, and I would propose that this is the real thing that is missing.
Dungeons are disappoining, yes. They tried to make them seamless with no loading between rooms, and they probably valued the content of the open world over individual dungeons, so something had to give, yes. But I think the fact that there are just 4 dungeons that don't lead to a narrative twist, into a second half, is enough to punctuate the narrative in these games, by removing its sense of emotional cadence. Everything is flatlined, and all you do is pick from a narrative buffet, and then go to the climax when you prefer. It feels like something is missing, doesn't it?
TL;DR: Past Zeldas used the structure of dungeons to balance player freedom with narrative inevitability, providing a sense of you going through a real Hero's Journey Monomyth. The last two games are instead flatly mapped, and the monomyth doesn't exist within its structure main missions, so when you end the game, it may be somewhat epic, but you don't feel like you went through the transformative hero-adventure "sword in the stone" style, when you beat the game. The problems of storytelling in BotW/TotK is not writing or the fact that it's memories. It's in the fact that the active story of the player's own adventure is not mapped to an inevitable hero's journey.
submitted by linkenski to zelda [link] [comments]
I'm not disputing non-linearity when I say that games since ALttP and prior to BotW were structured as they were for a reason. But they had what BotW and TotK don't: The narrative structure of a Hero's Journey.
They build out a story from the tutorial area and first dungeon as their inciting incident. A bit of prologue to set up the world, good guys and bad guys and a goal, the call to adventure.
Next, they use the player's freedom to tell us the part of a story when you progress from relative normality into challenge, as obstacles block what must be done to achieve the goal, challenging Link as the protagonist, or rather you.
Then, in the Abyss of Death and Rebirth Agahnim shows up to cast your presumputous award into doubt as he opens the gates to the Dark World and throws Link along into it. Or maybe, Zant shows up and hurts Midna, causing Zelda to sacrifice herself. Or maybe, you do rescue your sister, Aryll, but Ganondorf reveals his larger plot, and the King of Red Lions decides to throw "destiny" upon Link once again. No matter which, they moved the goal posts and brings about changes in the game's world and the player's objectives as they reach their coming of transformation.
In the transformative act 2, the player grows into a darker world, and darker themes. Here the challenges are not just practical but mental. Link must accept that he is now an adult in a darkened world, or that there is a dark world, or that farmboy-life must be put off even longer because the Twilight interferences are here to stay until we do something! In this part of a Zelda game the dungeons typically shifted in tone. The side quest narratives became more "real" and you, the player, enter more mechanically complicated dungeons. Ocarina of Time introduces man made temples with small keys opening doors. ALttP had warping between two world to find the entrances. Wind Waker turned their final dungeons into co-op escort events where Link had to not only explore the dungeon, but protect an important sage.
It all leads into the final 3rd act, in a confrontation, typically with Ganondorf, where the gift of the goddess is bestowed by Zelda to Link, and Link uses his learned experience to seal away evil, and complete the true objective. You, the player, use your own experience and acquired items to go through Ganon's tower and fight a final series of bosses, to witness the culmination of the plot.
Breath of the Wild and TotK don't do this. They start you with a brief mystery prologue that sets up a main goal. Then they let you do anything and even if try to emulate the past structure through the freedom, by basically following game hints that tell you where to go first, you end up with a much more shortlived and basic narrative.
The entirety of BotW is basically "Free the Divine Beasts" and the entirety of TotK is "Find Zelda. Where could she be?"
There is no turning point in these stories that ramp up the stakes from their early premise. They start one way, and stay one way, and then the ending suddenly happens.
It's hard to fault Nintendo for this. I understand that this is the tradeoff to having an unpredictable player behavior. You have to make the story flexible, and make the player feel like nothing is caused by a linear decision by developers.
There is nothing "wrong" about not using monomyth, but I think that a lot of people are picking up on there being a lack of "something" in Open Air Zelda, and I would propose that this is the real thing that is missing.
Dungeons are disappoining, yes. They tried to make them seamless with no loading between rooms, and they probably valued the content of the open world over individual dungeons, so something had to give, yes. But I think the fact that there are just 4 dungeons that don't lead to a narrative twist, into a second half, is enough to punctuate the narrative in these games, by removing its sense of emotional cadence. Everything is flatlined, and all you do is pick from a narrative buffet, and then go to the climax when you prefer. It feels like something is missing, doesn't it?
TL;DR: Past Zeldas used the structure of dungeons to balance player freedom with narrative inevitability, providing a sense of you going through a real Hero's Journey Monomyth. The last two games are instead flatly mapped, and the monomyth doesn't exist within its structure main missions, so when you end the game, it may be somewhat epic, but you don't feel like you went through the transformative hero-adventure "sword in the stone" style, when you beat the game. The problems of storytelling in BotW/TotK is not writing or the fact that it's memories. It's in the fact that the active story of the player's own adventure is not mapped to an inevitable hero's journey.
2023.05.27 22:34 Prestigious-Ad-3380 Lore Of The Game Theory
SPOILERS!!!
The following are a collection of things I've noted in the game and my interpretation of said things, sorry in advanced if I'm all over the place. Also, obviously spoilers.
Details: -we see that Raoru has 7 stones, one he has himself and his sister and wife have two more, leaving 4 stones to be sealed in secret. These stone pair and amplify the users abilities with the odd property of turning the user into s dragon if consumed. Raoru can't use more than one stone which is why he resorts to creating the sages for help. Why were the stones sealed, and why do they turn you into dragons? -we also see that when Zelda turns into a dragon, her dragon shares her element which is sacred power, it has has a complexion that resembles a hylian with pointy ears and a longer thinner snout. This is in direct contrast to the dragons we see ingame dinrall, farosh and naydra, who have zonai characteristics. They are zonai looking with long hears goat snouts and even have the same design for scale/hair in their snouts that Raoru has on its chin. We see that the dragons complexion depends on the creature that transforms into it, as well as its element. Just like the demon king turns into a demon dragon which produces gloom just like Ganondorf.
-In the depths we see a statues that lead you to different mines, they represent primitive versions of the Gerudo, hylians, Zora's, Rito, and Gordon's, but there's also another statue of a species that doesn't resemble the Zonai at all, lacking her slender figure and big ears. Their build and snout are also different with no horns. This statue is the one we see in Joshua's quest, and it is grasping a stone like thing.
-we also find Huge "Dark Skeletons" in the depths right below where the three great skeletons are. These skeletons are several times the size oft he whales, are serpent like, have consistent spikes in their spine that end in three spikes on the top of their head with a fourth broken one. Their skull has a weird snout opening and they have no limbs.
-Theres also the dragon armor sets, ember charged and frostbite that are clearly intended to be based on dinral, farosh and naydra with the correct horn shape. These armor sets are described as ceremonial but clearly exhibit powers of their respective dragon under the right conditions. Also to note, Raoru's clothes look incredibly similar to the charged set with some changes.
Now for my theory:
The Zonai were an advanced alien space fairing civilization that, thru their ceremonial practices, create life in planets and mine their resources. Just like engineers do in the movie Aliens. Secret stones were tools that would sacrifice the user to create and immortal dragon, an embodiment of their respective element and a power source. Dragons in conjunction with their armor sets were used to terraform planets and create life by controlling the balance of the world. Only a handful of Zonai arrive to this planet and they create a slave race to use as sacrifices for dragon creation and as the workforce at the mines ( this race is the one depicted in the unknown statue in the depths). Turns out that there was already life on this planet being the Hylians, Gorons, rito, zora and gerudo. The zonai are worship as gods. With time constructs are invented and manipulation of spirit energy is discovered. A war rises between the zonai who want slaves and the ones that don't. Dragons are used as weapons of war and result in a cataclysmal event that kills almost everyone, most of the zonai and the dragons. This is why even after so long there's still incredible amounts of lost souls and poes in the depths, it was a world ending event ending billions. To avoid complete destruction, three of the remaining zonai sacrifice themselves to turn into dragons and restore the balance of the world which are the zonai dragons we see in game. These Zonai were what people came to know as the goddesses Din Faron and Nayru which instilled their dragons with the will of keeping the balance and saving the world. This is why the goddesses almost never take direct aproaches, they act thru their dragons subconscious instilled will. The remaining zonai seal the last secret stones and begin restoring civilization. Time passes and with a dying technology even the zonai start to forget their golden age, turning into dragons is forbidden to avoid the last cataclysm. They discover that zonite has the properties of taking the shape of different thing and they mine zonite with constructs to start preparing the kingdom. Time passes the remaining zonai have kids eventually we reach Raoru and Mineru, they know of the dark past of the zonai ( which is why Raoru is upset when Ganon brings up the lack of zonai) mineru focuses on the study of zonai tech and Raoru focuses on rebuilding a kingdom that unites all races to avoid the last history ( this is why the gerudo recurve the invitation and Raoru still tries with Ganon) he married a hylian wife to unite the races below a new kingdom of hyrule. Raoru and Sonia have a kid. The events of the game happens. Raoru is forced to use the stones and trust them once more to others while trying to avoid using them for draconification, Zelda still does it after Raorus sacrifice is not enough. The sages race the sky islands to make sure that links place of return is protected by the sky barrier. Time passes Hyrule's royal family descendant of zonai find a Gerudo wife and have a son, the first male gerudo after Ganon ( this is why the heros aspect and the hero of the tapestry has red hair) this is also why we see the blood line of the hero use more gerudo imagery like link in botw having gerudo bandages which are the same as the designs in the zonai device capsules.
Things to note:
submitted by Prestigious-Ad-3380 to TOTK [link] [comments]
The following are a collection of things I've noted in the game and my interpretation of said things, sorry in advanced if I'm all over the place. Also, obviously spoilers.
Details: -we see that Raoru has 7 stones, one he has himself and his sister and wife have two more, leaving 4 stones to be sealed in secret. These stone pair and amplify the users abilities with the odd property of turning the user into s dragon if consumed. Raoru can't use more than one stone which is why he resorts to creating the sages for help. Why were the stones sealed, and why do they turn you into dragons? -we also see that when Zelda turns into a dragon, her dragon shares her element which is sacred power, it has has a complexion that resembles a hylian with pointy ears and a longer thinner snout. This is in direct contrast to the dragons we see ingame dinrall, farosh and naydra, who have zonai characteristics. They are zonai looking with long hears goat snouts and even have the same design for scale/hair in their snouts that Raoru has on its chin. We see that the dragons complexion depends on the creature that transforms into it, as well as its element. Just like the demon king turns into a demon dragon which produces gloom just like Ganondorf.
-In the depths we see a statues that lead you to different mines, they represent primitive versions of the Gerudo, hylians, Zora's, Rito, and Gordon's, but there's also another statue of a species that doesn't resemble the Zonai at all, lacking her slender figure and big ears. Their build and snout are also different with no horns. This statue is the one we see in Joshua's quest, and it is grasping a stone like thing.
-we also find Huge "Dark Skeletons" in the depths right below where the three great skeletons are. These skeletons are several times the size oft he whales, are serpent like, have consistent spikes in their spine that end in three spikes on the top of their head with a fourth broken one. Their skull has a weird snout opening and they have no limbs.
- The zonai architecture has depictions of dragons, but these don't look like dinral Farosh or naydra. Just like the dark skeletons they're serpent like, have consistent spikes along it's spine which end with three spikes on their head with a horn which could be the fourth broken spike on the skeletons. Also the snout of the dragon depictions also look like the snout opening on the skull of the skeletons.
-Theres also the dragon armor sets, ember charged and frostbite that are clearly intended to be based on dinral, farosh and naydra with the correct horn shape. These armor sets are described as ceremonial but clearly exhibit powers of their respective dragon under the right conditions. Also to note, Raoru's clothes look incredibly similar to the charged set with some changes.
- looking at the depths, we know that they're ment to mirror the surface, but maybe they don't mirror it in a methaforical way sinse most of the mirroring has a logical reason to be. Mountains are pits because the zonai exploited the mines, mines are also places where there are no settlements on the surface. Wellsprings is just water from the springs on top. Whales know when they're gonna die and choose to beach themselves, these being magical whales, they could've gravitated to areas of power left by the dark skeletons. Lakes are huge walls in the depths because the bodies of water are deeper. Lightfoot is probably tied to shrines. Ingame zonai shrines are meant to hold light to dispel evil ( unlike the sheikah shrines meant to test the hero) the shrines could use the light root to collect the light that's stored in the shrines. Chasms are located where some shrines used to be because the structural integrity of those spots were affected when they dismantled the shrines and sheikah tech. We see chasms where there weren't any shrines in botw like in wels etc so it's mainly due to cave INS than any other reason.
Now for my theory:
The Zonai were an advanced alien space fairing civilization that, thru their ceremonial practices, create life in planets and mine their resources. Just like engineers do in the movie Aliens. Secret stones were tools that would sacrifice the user to create and immortal dragon, an embodiment of their respective element and a power source. Dragons in conjunction with their armor sets were used to terraform planets and create life by controlling the balance of the world. Only a handful of Zonai arrive to this planet and they create a slave race to use as sacrifices for dragon creation and as the workforce at the mines ( this race is the one depicted in the unknown statue in the depths). Turns out that there was already life on this planet being the Hylians, Gorons, rito, zora and gerudo. The zonai are worship as gods. With time constructs are invented and manipulation of spirit energy is discovered. A war rises between the zonai who want slaves and the ones that don't. Dragons are used as weapons of war and result in a cataclysmal event that kills almost everyone, most of the zonai and the dragons. This is why even after so long there's still incredible amounts of lost souls and poes in the depths, it was a world ending event ending billions. To avoid complete destruction, three of the remaining zonai sacrifice themselves to turn into dragons and restore the balance of the world which are the zonai dragons we see in game. These Zonai were what people came to know as the goddesses Din Faron and Nayru which instilled their dragons with the will of keeping the balance and saving the world. This is why the goddesses almost never take direct aproaches, they act thru their dragons subconscious instilled will. The remaining zonai seal the last secret stones and begin restoring civilization. Time passes and with a dying technology even the zonai start to forget their golden age, turning into dragons is forbidden to avoid the last cataclysm. They discover that zonite has the properties of taking the shape of different thing and they mine zonite with constructs to start preparing the kingdom. Time passes the remaining zonai have kids eventually we reach Raoru and Mineru, they know of the dark past of the zonai ( which is why Raoru is upset when Ganon brings up the lack of zonai) mineru focuses on the study of zonai tech and Raoru focuses on rebuilding a kingdom that unites all races to avoid the last history ( this is why the gerudo recurve the invitation and Raoru still tries with Ganon) he married a hylian wife to unite the races below a new kingdom of hyrule. Raoru and Sonia have a kid. The events of the game happens. Raoru is forced to use the stones and trust them once more to others while trying to avoid using them for draconification, Zelda still does it after Raorus sacrifice is not enough. The sages race the sky islands to make sure that links place of return is protected by the sky barrier. Time passes Hyrule's royal family descendant of zonai find a Gerudo wife and have a son, the first male gerudo after Ganon ( this is why the heros aspect and the hero of the tapestry has red hair) this is also why we see the blood line of the hero use more gerudo imagery like link in botw having gerudo bandages which are the same as the designs in the zonai device capsules.
Things to note:
- I dont know where the timelines fit into this, my guess is that them being a time space fairing species, they used time travel to also avoid destruction and have a way to eventually join all timeline little by little, which is why we see different timeline elements by botw as the remains of this story in depths also resurface.
- Hylia is known as the godess of time, which re encarnate s as hylian, she wasn't hylian before. Maybe she was a zonai under or friend to Din, Faron and Nayru which is why she is a godess but not of the main three and why she has this weird relationship with dragons. She continue the war after the goddesses sacrifice to be the master sword we know. And fighting a multidimensional enemy known as demise from a mirrored version for their world after the tryforce is set so no zonai con use it. Which forced hylia to turn into hylian. In a similar process that makes it lose herself.
- I find it odd that the sheikah symbol is an eye with exaggerated lashes and a tear. Maybe they knew that the the kingdom would be safe after said events of the dragon tears, and the eye is Zelda's dragon eye with tears. So the sheikah who serve hylia are born to protect Zelda until the moment when this whole conflict ends to the point of finding Zelda's dragon tears ( this is one far fetched but it's still interesting)
- Fun fact, the depths armor set looks like the Garo outfit from Majora's mask, which was from Ilana the land of the dead, a dead civilization. The armor set has the red bezels with golden inscriptions just like the garo do, as well of depictions of a worm like creatures like twinmold from Majora's mask. The srmos leg is also basically strap bandages like the garo. I still don't know where the bargainers statues come into play but the armor is clearly from the "depths" which is the remains of this ancient civilization just like in majora the garo are remains of the war and Majora's mask termina is supposed to mirror Hyrule.
- The zonai and gerudo have very similar to identical symbols and imagery so their people were clearly influenced by one or each other.
2023.05.27 19:14 Techsomat [TOTK] What does it mean by this?
Can someone tell me what it means by “deepen connection with the sages” I don’t want to waste them.
submitted by Techsomat to zelda [link] [comments]